An interesting example of assumptions even professional linguists make...

[tree_and_leaf]

I came across a post on Language Log - the story which inspired it is well worth clicking through, too, as it's the tale of one Australian farmer* trying to get rid of her 'arsehole geese' on social media with radical honesty.

What brought me up short, though, was the author's observation that

Most dictionaries I consulted classify "arsehole" as vulgar and offensive, but I always thought of it as a jocular, watered-down version of another word.

And I sat there racking my brains as to what on earth 'arsehole' could be a jocular euphemism for. I mean, surely he couldn't mean 'cunt', because it's not the same body part at all....

The comments shed more light, and a consensus emerged that North Americans seem likely to think that 'arsehole' is a humorous/ archaic term that's less offensive than 'asshole', whereas British and Australians tend to think that 'asshole' is a relatively harmless Americanism.

They then continue on to a brief discussion of the difficulties nonnative speakers have in working out how offensive particular swearwords are (see: the baffling belief of many Germans that 'fuck' is not actually that rude). But it's fascinating to see the same phenomenon at work between two regional varieties of the same language!


* Though I'm not sure how long they've been farming; I could have told you geese were potentially trouble!

Comments

[jesuswasbatman]

Well, "fuck" has a clear German equivalent in "fick", which I believe isn't quite as offensive in Germany.

What amuses me is that so many German coarse, derogatory expressions for unpleasant people are based around the root "kerl", which is the German version of the original English meaning of "churl", meaning "peasant".

[tree_and_leaf]

Yes, but as Nineveh says below, you would think teachers would cover it!

[conuly]

On a similar note, I read once that Brits find the term "diaper" to be quaint and more pleasant sounding than "nappy", Americans of course feel the opposite way.

[sartorias]

Whereas American's think the German Schweinhund is funny.

[tree_and_leaf]

To be fair, I think 'Schweinhund' is slightly comical in German now, if only because it sounds so old fashioned.

[caulkhead]

I've heard it quite often in the phrase 'innere Schweinhund' (ie the bit of you that would rather sit around on the sofa than go and do whatever energetic thing you had in mind), but not on its own, I think.

[tree_and_leaf]

Yes, likewise - and 'innere Schweinhund' definitely isn't sweary.

[nineveh_uk]

I would definitely have thought that professional linguists should be aware of the issue!

Even my beginners Danish class spent a bit of time on swearing, so that we knew what people meant and how to use them if necessary* and the teachers pointed out the lack of direct matching to our various languages. We were encouraged to still to the mildest versions since we lacked much sense of register, though I did use “kraftedeme” on one occasion at a bunch of people having a very loud party with open doors and windows at 3am.

It would probably be helpful if English language classes would teach people that “fuck” might be mild in their language, but it isn’t in English.

*Memorably, the equivalent of “limpdick” was apparently included by special request of a previous student who had wanted a suitable word to be able to reply forcefully to someone pestering her.

[tree_and_leaf]

On reflection, it occurs to be that the majority of Germans learn English at secondary school, and it is difficult to teach swearing in a school classroom in a way that it isn't with adult learners, even if they are undergraduates!

[antisoppist]

It would probably be helpful if English language classes would teach people that “fuck” might be mild in their language, but it isn’t in English.

I did try - conversation classes with teenagers. They didn't believe me.

[tree_and_leaf]

Teenagers never believe the AssistentIn.

[taelle]

"Fuck" feels milder to me as a speaker of Russian than the equivalent Russian word, I think, because it seems to be much more widely used in dialogues in modern books/films than it would be in Russian books/films of equivalent genre/depicting people from equivalent social groups. (going by usage in books and films it feels like "cunt" is much ruder a word)

[caulkhead]

It is. That's the nuclear option, as it were. But that doesn't mean that "fuck" is mild.

[tree_and_leaf]

Yes, exactly!

[perennialanna]

It took a surprisingly long time for any of the commenters to mention the key fact - an Australian register is different again.

The Instructions for GIs in Australia recreate a wonderful lost Australian culture of the 1940s. They comment, for example: "The Australian has few equals in the world at swearing -- the commonest swear words are bastard (pronounced bar-stud), bugger and bloody, and the Australians have a genius for using the latter nearly every other word." And they solemnly record that to be called "a bloody fine bastard" is the highest praise.

[tree_and_leaf]

That's great!

[cadenzamuse]

Haha, as an American, I totally feel as described about "arsehole" vs "asshole."

[molniya]

This is fascinating! (Australian, and I concur on the "arsehole" vs "asshole". Though I would say the f-word is getting mild here. I hear it all the time in standard conversation amongst doctors at work).