When is a dystopia not a dystopia?

[tree_and_leaf]

Find myself baffled by this list of SF books that aren't set in 'bleak dystopias.' I enjoyed "Ninefox Gambit," but in what sense is it not set in a horrific wasteland full of human rights violations?

And the Empire of Ancilliary Justice is not actually one I'd be queuing up to live in, what with the constant surveillance, the tyrannical and fractured government, and, oh yes, a military that recruits its grunts by murdering conquered people and turning their bodies into AI controlled drones. I mean, I love tea, but...

(I suspect what they actually mean is 'SF that's not grimdark!', but even then, I'm confused by the inclusion of Ninefox Gambit...)

Comments

[17catherines]

Ninefox Gambit was excellent, but it was ABSOLUTELY a dystopia. And I'm not entirely convinced that there aren't dystopic elements in Hitchhikers, for that matter...

[tree_and_leaf]

I agree about Hitchhikers. I mean, obviously it's satire, and funny satire at that, but a galactic society where developers can just blow up a planet (without even a tokenistic attempt to evacuate the planet) and everyone just shrugs and gets on with things is pretty horrific.

[sovay]

(I suspect what they actually mean is 'SF that's not grimdark!', but even then, I'm confused by the inclusion of Ninefox Gambit...)

I agree that the hexarchate of Ninefox Gambit is a dystopia; I don't find it grimdark. That turns out to be an important distinction in the kind of dystopian fiction I enjoy reading and the kind where I want to shout at it that it's just not helping.

[tree_and_leaf]

Eh, that's arguable. I had classified it as grimdark - but on the other hand, I also enjoyed it, and I generally nope out of grimdark, so maybe you're right....

[sovay]

I had classified it as grimdark - but on the other hand, I also enjoyed it, and I generally nope out of grimdark, so maybe you're right....

I tend to think of grimdark as a mode that actively punishes idealism and/or attempts to do the right thing (see why I noped eventually out of A Song of Ice and Fire: once is subversive, twice is effective, three times and more starts to feel like a rigged game) and the Machineries of Empire is not that; the narrative agrees the implementation of the right thing is complicated and may involve a bunch of best of bad choices, but it never claims it's innately doomed or just not worth it. I'm willing to read for that. I really don't want to read the kind of cynicism that just wraps around to complacency.

I think that list might have done better if it had been themed generally around "science fiction that will not depress the hell out of you."