Mind boggling sentence of the day

[tree_and_leaf]

“Now, I would hope that even those of us already too familiar with such erotic images from our reading of later-mediaeval mystical treatises (not to mention Rupert’s own visionary experiences†) might still find this image – of the Son arranging for his marriage to his mother in her womb – at the very least momentarily shocking, if not (as Philip seems to have intended it to be), simultaneously titillating, provocative, and yet somehow faintly repulsive (much like the Incarnation itself)"

Fulton, Rachel. 2002. From Judgement to Passion: Devotion to the Virgin Mary 800-1200. New York: Columbia University Press.

I mean... just... WHAT? Particularly the last bracketed comment. Provocative I might be persuaded to buy, but... the Incarnation of Christ? Titillating?

I wish I did have a beer.

† Rupert of Deutz. I think she means the one where he snogs the crucified Christ, but I'm not totally sure.

Also, my hot water is orange again. It looks pretty disgusting, and it's murder on the towels (anyone know how to get rust stains out? At least, I assume it's rust...

Comments

[ellid.livejournal.com]

Re: quote - EWWWWWW!!!!!!! Makes those Virgins Ouevriantes look positively normal

Re: rust stains - bleach is about it. Rust is a natural mordant and the "stains" are what used to be called iron buff....

[tree_and_leaf]

Yes... although, I looked at the original source and, icky though the idea is, I don't see any attempts at titillation.... which almost makes me wonder about Dr Fulton....

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

I'm very fond of a nice vierge ouvriante (sp?). When I was at college I tried to make one with a sheela-na-gig inside, but it fell foul of my frankly cackhanded way with papier mache.

It depends what exactly Rachel Fulton means by the Incarnation, I suppose. There is something arousing and / or erotic about the idea of God being made flesh, I think (I say this as a non-believer). I can't quite pinpoint it, but I suppose it has something to do with the idea that divine love for humans has an erotic element, and the pathos of God becoming flesh, subject to its own desires and weaknesses. "Titillating" is a very trivial sort of word to use, though.
If she's talking about the actual physical process of conception and birth, though, I'm baffled.
The Cherry Tree Carol is sort of folk version of what this mystic chap was on about, isn't it?

[tree_and_leaf]

Yes, i think it's just badly expressed ('titillating' is definitely wrong; it's - well, I hesitate to use the word 'sordid', but it's both feeble and decididly negative.)

I think a better analogue for Philip (the mystic chap) would be the mediaeval carol 'I sing of a maiden' - a very beautiful and exrtemely clever little poem:

I sing of a maiden
That is makeles;
King of all kings
To her son she ches.

He came al so still
There his mother was,
As dew in April
That falleth on the grass.

He came al so still
To his mother’s bour,
As dew in April
That falleth on the flour.

He came al so still
There his mother lay,
As dew in April
That falleth on the spray.

Mother and maiden
Was never none but she;
Well may such a lady
Goddes mother be.

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

That poem's a great favourite of mine: I heard it very disappointingly set to music at a Christmas concert last year, and was dismayed all evening.

He came al so still
To his mother’s bour,

That's it, see: not "titillating" (awful sea-side postcard connotations) but sexual nonetheless.

[tree_and_leaf]

It's one of my favourites, too, but I've never heard setting of it I like.

Although, frankly, I don't think it needs music. It's complete in itself. (The mediaeval macaronic Marian thing Britten set is a much slighter poem, but possibly works better as a choral piece for that reason.

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

macaronic Marian thing

I don't think I know it...

[tree_and_leaf]

Of one that is so fair and bright
Velut maris stella,
Brighter than the day is light,
Parens et puella:
I cry to thee, thou see to me,
Lady, pray thy Son for me,
Tam pia,
That I may come to thee.
Maria!

All this world was forlorn
Eva peccatrice,
Till our Lord was y-born
De te genetrice.
With ave it went away
Darkest night, and comes the day
Salutis;
The well springeth out of thee.
Virtutis.

Lady, flow'r of ev'ry thing,
Rosa sine spina,
Thou bare Jesu, Heaven's King,
Gratia divina:
Of all thou bear'st the prize,
Lady, queen of paradise
Electa:
Maid mild, mother es
Effecta.

For two choruses, one singing the English and one the Latin. B.B.'s setting's excellent.

[ellid.livejournal.com]

When I was at college I tried to make one with a sheela-na-gig inside, but it fell foul of my frankly cackhanded way with papier mache.

That is one of the most brilliant things I've ever heard of. WOW!

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

Ever tried to make hinges out of papier mache and twine?

*shakes head in wonderment*

[tree_and_leaf]

I have a suspicion the V.O.'s are heretical (in the technical sense).† Though it's practiacally impossible not to be, when dealing with the Trinity.

†At least, if you men the ones that have the Father and the Spirit inside them, as well as the Son.

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

I have a suspicion the V.O.'s are heretical

*nods* The abbreviation V.O. makes them sound very sinister, somehow, too.
I associate them with head reliquaries, one of which seems to have played a part in the downfall of the Templars, because there is a picture of both on the same page (? nearby, anyway) of Michael Camille's The Gothic Idol, which I spent hours with as an undergraduate.