(no subject)
Apr. 27th, 2010 02:07 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tree_and_leafIs anyone surprised to hear that I really liked "The Time of Angels"?
I don't have anything much intelligent to say, so have my twitterings instead:
Aaaargh, cliff-hanger of doom! 15 minutes ago via Echofon#
I don't need you to die for me, I'm not that clingy! 19 minutes ago via Echofon#
Bob, don't be a numpty! 23 minutes ago via Echofon#
"That's the church for you. No offence, Bishop." "Quite a lot taken, Doctor, if that's all right with you."#
@Knitronomicon It's the only explanation that makes sense..... 33 minutes ago via Echofon in reply to Knitronomicon#
Or maybe it's what happens when cathedrals attack.... 39 minutes ago via Echofon#
Virgers! How are we doing with those explosives? 40 minutes ago via Echofon#
Current theory: Fr Octavian & co. actually work for the Society of Jesus. 41 minutes ago via Echofon#
Incidentally, no spoilers pls. 44 minutes ago via Echofon#
Watching the Time of Angels. Am enjoying the redefinition of the Church Militant. about 1 hour ago via Echofon
Of course, on reflection, those aren't very intelligent, either.
But this was a good episode, proper scary Doctor Who, and I like Fr Octavian rather a lot. Actually, he reminds me of the Brigadier. Am hoping that our un-named bunch of clerics aren't going to turn out to be evil - this is possibly a hang-over from my RTD-era paranoia, but there is something exceedingly odd going on with River Song.
On that note, I like Dr Song, though not as much as Father. She is ingenious, tough, and obviously knows the Doctor very well (and not just in the cheap-joke sense) - and the Bond parody sequence at the beginning was brilliant. The Doctor's reluctance to get close to her could have many motives (after all, he knows what's going to happen to her, which is a queasy way to start any kind of relationship, quite apart from the fact that he's obviously exceedingly uncomfortable with the fact that she know more than he does). Lots of room for fic in her remarks about learning to drive the TARDIS from the best (though it's entirely possible she was just winding her up, I am choosing to believe it was Romana. Or possibly the TARDIS herself).
Am worried about poor Amy (I mean, obviously she's not going to die, but I foresee an unpleasant time for her next episode. Though I could see where they were going with the 'image of the angel' straight off). The conversation with Angel!Bob was exceedingly creepy. Though really, whatever arm of the Church Militant our clerics are working for ought to train them a bit better - illogical conversations and demands to do things which are obviously inappropriate or dangerous on a serious mission against the unknown-but-deadly ought to be taken as a really bad sign. "It's not a school trip" - no, indeed.
I have a sneaking suspicion that I ought to be dubious about the Church being so literally militant, whereas actually I find it kind of cool. Mostly this is because, as I said above, I really like Fr Octavian, and also because Weeping Angels seem like a reasonable thing for the church to be dealing with; a logical extension of exorcism. The only other thing we know that they combat are lava snakes, which sounds more like a kind of pest control than crusade... Partly, I admit, I am amused by the lolworthiness of it ("Virgers! How are we doing with those explosives?"). My immediate reaction to Fr Octavian and co was to suspect them of being Jesuits, who did, after all, model themselves on the military in many ways.†
On second thoughts, I wonder if they aren't actually the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith expanding its remit into battling uncanny and hostile forces which some people believe to be legend, along the lines of their involvement in vampire-killing in Ultraviolet, which I'm betting Moff had, consciously or not, in mind. (I also wonder if he'd seen the photo of the Archbishop of York in a tank?)aunty_marion offered the theory, via Twitter, that our militant clerics were a cathedral chapter who had finally noticed what was going on with the gargoyles, and felt it incumbent on them to deal with the situation. This would explain why they seem to rely on Virgers to do the heavy lifting (rather, than, say, lay brothers...)
The Doctor is very anti-clericalist, but no surprises there. And I reiterate, the dynamic between him and Fr Octavian reminds me quite a lot of Three and the Brig, despite the fact that Eleven is generally more Troughtonesque. I keep being vaguely reminded of "Tomb of the Cybermen", despite the fact that the stories are not really that similar.
In conclusion, I must say I'm glad that the cathedral is rather short on statues.
† From the Formula of the Institute of the Society of Jesus: "Whoever desires to serve as a soldier of God beneath the banner of the Cross in our Society, which we desire to be designated by the Name of Jesus, and to serve the Lord alone and the Church, his spouse, under the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth, should, after a solemn vow of perpetual chastity, poverty and obedience, keep what follows in mind. He is a member of a Society founded chiefly for this purpose: to strive especially for the defence and propagation of the faith and for the progress of souls in Christian life and doctrine, by means of public preaching, lectures and any other ministration whatsoever of the Word of God, and further by means of retreats, the education of children and unlettered persons in Christianity, and the spiritual consolation of Christ's faithful through hearing confessions and administering the other sacraments. Moreover, he should show himself ready to reconcile the estranged, compassionately assist and serve those who are in prisons or hospitals, and indeed, to perform any other works of charity, according to what will seem expedient for the glory of God and the common good."
I don't have anything much intelligent to say, so have my twitterings instead:
Aaaargh, cliff-hanger of doom! 15 minutes ago via Echofon#
I don't need you to die for me, I'm not that clingy! 19 minutes ago via Echofon#
Bob, don't be a numpty! 23 minutes ago via Echofon#
"That's the church for you. No offence, Bishop." "Quite a lot taken, Doctor, if that's all right with you."#
@Knitronomicon It's the only explanation that makes sense..... 33 minutes ago via Echofon in reply to Knitronomicon#
Or maybe it's what happens when cathedrals attack.... 39 minutes ago via Echofon#
Virgers! How are we doing with those explosives? 40 minutes ago via Echofon#
Current theory: Fr Octavian & co. actually work for the Society of Jesus. 41 minutes ago via Echofon#
Incidentally, no spoilers pls. 44 minutes ago via Echofon#
Watching the Time of Angels. Am enjoying the redefinition of the Church Militant. about 1 hour ago via Echofon
Of course, on reflection, those aren't very intelligent, either.
But this was a good episode, proper scary Doctor Who, and I like Fr Octavian rather a lot. Actually, he reminds me of the Brigadier. Am hoping that our un-named bunch of clerics aren't going to turn out to be evil - this is possibly a hang-over from my RTD-era paranoia, but there is something exceedingly odd going on with River Song.
On that note, I like Dr Song, though not as much as Father. She is ingenious, tough, and obviously knows the Doctor very well (and not just in the cheap-joke sense) - and the Bond parody sequence at the beginning was brilliant. The Doctor's reluctance to get close to her could have many motives (after all, he knows what's going to happen to her, which is a queasy way to start any kind of relationship, quite apart from the fact that he's obviously exceedingly uncomfortable with the fact that she know more than he does). Lots of room for fic in her remarks about learning to drive the TARDIS from the best (though it's entirely possible she was just winding her up, I am choosing to believe it was Romana. Or possibly the TARDIS herself).
Am worried about poor Amy (I mean, obviously she's not going to die, but I foresee an unpleasant time for her next episode. Though I could see where they were going with the 'image of the angel' straight off). The conversation with Angel!Bob was exceedingly creepy. Though really, whatever arm of the Church Militant our clerics are working for ought to train them a bit better - illogical conversations and demands to do things which are obviously inappropriate or dangerous on a serious mission against the unknown-but-deadly ought to be taken as a really bad sign. "It's not a school trip" - no, indeed.
I have a sneaking suspicion that I ought to be dubious about the Church being so literally militant, whereas actually I find it kind of cool. Mostly this is because, as I said above, I really like Fr Octavian, and also because Weeping Angels seem like a reasonable thing for the church to be dealing with; a logical extension of exorcism. The only other thing we know that they combat are lava snakes, which sounds more like a kind of pest control than crusade... Partly, I admit, I am amused by the lolworthiness of it ("Virgers! How are we doing with those explosives?"). My immediate reaction to Fr Octavian and co was to suspect them of being Jesuits, who did, after all, model themselves on the military in many ways.†
On second thoughts, I wonder if they aren't actually the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith expanding its remit into battling uncanny and hostile forces which some people believe to be legend, along the lines of their involvement in vampire-killing in Ultraviolet, which I'm betting Moff had, consciously or not, in mind. (I also wonder if he'd seen the photo of the Archbishop of York in a tank?)
aunty_marion offered the theory, via Twitter, that our militant clerics were a cathedral chapter who had finally noticed what was going on with the gargoyles, and felt it incumbent on them to deal with the situation. This would explain why they seem to rely on Virgers to do the heavy lifting (rather, than, say, lay brothers...)The Doctor is very anti-clericalist, but no surprises there. And I reiterate, the dynamic between him and Fr Octavian reminds me quite a lot of Three and the Brig, despite the fact that Eleven is generally more Troughtonesque. I keep being vaguely reminded of "Tomb of the Cybermen", despite the fact that the stories are not really that similar.
In conclusion, I must say I'm glad that the cathedral is rather short on statues.
† From the Formula of the Institute of the Society of Jesus: "Whoever desires to serve as a soldier of God beneath the banner of the Cross in our Society, which we desire to be designated by the Name of Jesus, and to serve the Lord alone and the Church, his spouse, under the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ on earth, should, after a solemn vow of perpetual chastity, poverty and obedience, keep what follows in mind. He is a member of a Society founded chiefly for this purpose: to strive especially for the defence and propagation of the faith and for the progress of souls in Christian life and doctrine, by means of public preaching, lectures and any other ministration whatsoever of the Word of God, and further by means of retreats, the education of children and unlettered persons in Christianity, and the spiritual consolation of Christ's faithful through hearing confessions and administering the other sacraments. Moreover, he should show himself ready to reconcile the estranged, compassionately assist and serve those who are in prisons or hospitals, and indeed, to perform any other works of charity, according to what will seem expedient for the glory of God and the common good."
(no subject)
Date: 2010-04-27 03:16 pm (UTC)But reading your post was really interesting; I can totally see the Jesuit angle, but just overall, the premise absolutely fascinated me.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-04-27 03:33 pm (UTC)I want to know more about the Clerics...
(no subject)
Date: 2010-04-27 05:37 pm (UTC)I wonder if the Jesuits in Space thing also harks back to St Francis Xavier et al? My history teacher was very keen on telling us that the Jesuits were effective missionaries because they were damn good at doing things other missionaries didn't (like listening when people told them about the local culture and, what's more, equipping themselves with language skills so they could listen). In fact, I always felt sad about the cultural clash at St Marie among the Hurons; it seems obvious with the benefit of hindsight that the spiritual impulse which leads one to eat the heart of an enemy whose qualities one greatly admires and the spiritual impulses which lead one to stick said heart in a gold reliquary and carry it around the place are pretty closely related.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-04-27 10:58 pm (UTC)Yes. I loathe it when people say that, but I've never had the guts to use that comeback.
I wonder if the Jesuits in Space thing also harks back to St Francis Xavier et al?
Very possibly. I've always had a tremendous amount of respect for the Jesuits, especially as they (and the Dominicans) stood up for the rights of indigenous peoples in south and central America at a very early stage indeed.† There's a minor tradition of Jesuits in Space in SF, of course, partly for the S. Francis Xavier tradition, and partly because if you want to talk about theology using the lens of SF, the Jebbies are the one group of clergy you don't really have to work at making it plausible are in space; half of the Society seem to be astrophysicists as it is...
that the spiritual impulse which leads one to eat the heart of an enemy whose qualities one greatly admires and the spiritual impulses which lead one to stick said heart in a gold reliquary and carry it around the place are pretty closely related
Heck, it's practically sacramental!
† They did much better at this than the Franciscans, which is about the opposite of what you'd expect.