Hurrah! Finally got to see Caspian!

[tree_and_leaf]

I enjoyed it quite a lot, although



I do wonder why they made Peter such a complete and utter arsehole (not to mention an idiot). I mean, yeah, they're trying to deal with the Emotional Issues of suddenly being a child again, but honestly, thumping people because they jostled you on the Tube? That's not being upset because people are treating you like a child, that's being upset because you're not a special snowflake. And as for the way he carries on around Caspian - Peter, dear, the 'You don't belong here!!11!' card is not a classy one to play at the best of times, and it's particularly stupid when you're trying to use it when talking to someone who, whatever his ancestry, was born in that country and you're not even from that world. I'm not sure about the 'let's invade the castle strategy', though the major mistake was letting Miraz get away (I mean, really!). The arguing in front of the troops, however, is not just unattractively jealous, but indicates that he'd forgotten everything he ever knew about leadership. If you want to be treated like a grown up, it's not a bad idea to act like one, rather than a sulky emo teen with incipient testosterone poisoning.

I think, on reflection, what most annoyed me about Peter's characterisation was that, despite Aslan's statement at the end that he and Susan have learned all they can, there's not all that much evidence that he's learned very much (though I did like the scene after the confrontation with Unexpected Deep Freeze Jadis, where he sits staring at the image of Aslan). PhyllisSusan, on the other hand, is great, even when she's being a bit obnoxious at the start. I assume they're not planning to do 'The Last Battle', because I don't see how they can make the Susan arc work at all... she's very different from book! Susan, whose main problem has always struck me as being afraid, not so much of danger (she's brave enough at the Stone Table), but of not being in control and not being the sensible one with all the answers. She also dislikes hurting or disappointing people, but I'm not sure how this fits in, though it does explain how the mess in 'The Horse and his Boy' starts....

What is rather curious, if you know the book, is that Peter and Susan are so different from their book characterisations, whereas Edmund and Lucy are very firmly in it - even in the bits which the filmmakers have added; the observation that Cair Paravel has fallen by siege is not in the book (and it's never clear what actually happened in canon), but it's dead on that Edmund would work out what happened. Edmund's brilliant all round - sarcastic, clever, loyal, and showing an ability to learn from his mistakes (and remember what he knew about kinging, in all of which he differs from movie! Peter). Of course, the filmmakers have the problem that book-Peter is likable but ever so slightly boring, whereas both Edmund and Lucy are brilliant in different ways - and whatever you think of the 'problem of Susan', it makes her interesting. (Peter is the most one dimensional of all the children, and a lot less interesting than Caspian, for all they get about the same amount of page time).

Reepicheep was great, though I was weirdly disconcerted by his light-coloured fur; I was sorry I couldn't hear the original dialogue, as I can't quite imagine Eddie Izzard....

Miraz was great, charismatic in a nasty sort of way, and his scenes with Caspian have a sort of Claudius-Hamlet dynamic. Ben Barnes is hot, and I loved the scene where he can't kill Miraz (though really, I know the Telmarines are pirates, but that's a ridiculous setting to fight a judicial combat in, especially when you've got a nice big even field to play with).

Weta special effects are impressive, but very Weta-y (I kept expecting a troop of orcs to turn up on Caspian's side, possibly lead by Shagrat - now there's a crossover!), and the siege machines and eagles... no. We know you're good at those special effects, but please, no more eagles and no more really over the top siege weaponry flattening sights of historical interest.

The Telmarine political sub-plot was confusing; Sopsesian and Glozelle are the thugs who put Miraz on the throne in the book; here they start off looking as if they're going to be the Decent General (Rommel, if not Stauffenberg) to Miraz's Dictator of Dodgy Legality, but they keep reverting to being greedy and ambitious traitors. Though I admit I had difficulty with the accent, which struck me as not so much Spanish-accented German (at least, they didn't sound like my Spanish friend does when she speaks German!) as Imbissbudendeutsch; it's a bit disconcerting when Miraz and Caspian sound as if they're going to ask you if you want ketchup or mayo on your pommes...

The body counts a lot higher than in the book, I think - or at least an awful lot more Telmarines get drowned (in the book, they panic at being caught between the woods and water, and surrender); this does not bode well for Caspian's attempts to unify the country.

Aslan is mostly not there (Chronicles of Narnia 2: Waiting for Aslan?); so, oddly enough, is Lucy, who somehow comes over as being more passive than in the book, despite the 'riding off into the woods to find Aslan' plot point.



In summary: Ben Barnes is hot, Edmund is fantastic, and eagles are shockingly overused in modern fantasy films.

Comments

[sacred-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

I think part of the problem with Peter (and Susan, actually) is that their book characters have gone very out of fashion (thank god). There's "responsible and thoroughly Good Egg elder brother, with slight tendency to look down on his younger sibs" and "eldest sister who unhesitatingly steps into role as mother for rest of children when real mother disappears". Both are not only slightly dull (though something could have been made of Susan's need to be in control - I suspect this stems from her feeling responsible for the others', particularly the younger two, welfare) but pretty annoying. I don't annoying children are allowed to be the protagonists anymore (unless they're annoying but spunky and feisty and Fighting The System or something).

I always did rather like Edmund. And I've always had a soft spot for Eustace (though BBCfilm!Eustace looks nothing like him). My absolute favourite has always been Jill, though, so I'll be interested to see how they deal with her when/if they make Silver Chair.

[tree_and_leaf]

"eldest sister who unhesitatingly steps into role as mother for rest of children when real mother disappears"

I've always wondered whether or not it's coincidence that the two classic examples of that character, in Narnia and Swallows and Amazons, are called Susan! (It is a hopelessly sensible name...)

I suspect this stems from her feeling responsible for the others', particularly the younger two, welfare)

I think you're right - Susan has a pretty thankless role in the Pevensie family, actually, as she is stuck with being both The Responsible One and The Pretty, Girly One (cf the parents' motives for taking her to America at the start of Dawn Treader). It's not surprising she ends up being eaten by the stereotype of conventional femininity, as her family have spent years shoving her into it (I wish I had some sense that Lewis realised this!).

Hurrah, another Jill fan! (though I like Eustace too).

[sacred-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

The Pevensies don't seem to do a particularly wonderful job with their girls, do they! Lucy is obviously 'the ugly one' and whilst she's nice and kind and sweet and brave (in Narnia, those are excellent qualities, particularly in a queen) I can see why back in our world she's jealous of Susan.

I wonder if Susan's headlong rush to 'the sillyest age', and her desperation to stay there, is a reflection of how she didn't have a brilliant time being a child (forced into responsible mother-role too young) and perhaps wasn't having an entirely happy time when she was grown up in Narnia (all those scheming suitors!). She's not allowed to use her skills with a bow that often (war is ugly when women fight) and isn't young enough to get away with scampering gaily to have picnics with fauns. Peter's the real glorious Monarch, Edmund's doing more behind-the-scenes everyday stuff of ruling, and she's left as, what? The pretty one? A bargaining chip for Narnian relations with other countries? Poor Susan.

I like Eustace, but I do prefer Jill. I particularly like the slightly chippy version we see in the BBC adaptation.

[tree_and_leaf]

I wonder if Susan's headlong rush to 'the sillyest age', and her desperation to stay there, is a reflection of how she didn't have a brilliant time being a child (forced into responsible mother-role too young) and perhaps wasn't having an entirely happy time when she was grown up in Narnia (all those scheming suitors!).

Yeah, I've thought that too. She probably thinks of it as her one chance to be free, and is determined to hang on to it as long as she can before she gets shoved into being a mother again.... I don't think the usual 'Susan doesn't get back to Narnia because of teh sex' reading is accurate, but her situation is, if anything, more depressing than that.

ETA:
... it's also significant that the only thing Lucy does in the books which is portrayed as really dodgy is inspired by her jealousy of Susan's looks and the attention which Susan gets as a result of them. I get the impression that Lucy's quite a lonely child, at least in our world (she doesn't seem to have all that many friends at school, and Peter, though he thinks of her as his favourite sister, patronises her). Come to think of it, that may be one of the reasons why she gets on so well with Caspian, who really did have an isolated childhood.

[sacred-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

Doesn't Lucy also do that spell to see what other people are saying about her? It's an understandable wish, but not really the act of a child with a large number of close friends. (Jill and Eustace are both rather friendless, though that's more a product of their ghastly school, probably. And unreformed Eustace was hardly the type to inspire friendship).

Lucy and Caspian are quite similar characters in many ways...

[tree_and_leaf]

You're quite right - I forgot about that, but it does fit into the same pattern.

Jill and Eustace are, I agree slightly different cases because of their school (though I agree that the normal attitude to unreformed Eustace was probably to want to drown him). Jill seems to be enthusiastic about Guides and probably has friends there, but I suspect she joined her company after the events of The Silver Chair - I don't think Experiment House would approve of Guides or Scouts.

Lucy and Caspian are quite similar characters in many ways...

I ship Caspian/ Lucy a bit in Voyage, in a low-key, non-OTPish way.

[sacred-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

The new experiment house - after the bullies are charged by a Caspian ex machina at the end of Silver Chair (I think? I may be misremembering) might be a bit different. One thing I love about Jill is that when she gets back to Narnia, she's been practising archery and pathfinding and Guide stuff that might be useful. Very sensible sort of girl!

I ship Caspian/Lucy in a non-rabid way. I remember being quite upset when I first read the books that Caspian went back to the Star woman rather than sailed on with Lucy. I understood and was happy with the 'he is a king, he has responsibilities and must go home' reason, but not so much 'you promised the pretty girl you'd go back for her'. But then I was a pretty unromantic child.

[tree_and_leaf]

Yeah, you're not misremembering; I meant pre-reformation EH (in fact the narrator tells us that the result of the uproar is an investigation into what's been going on at the school, a round of expulsions and a new head, and it becomes quite a good school).

'he is a king, he has responsibilities and must go home' but not so much 'you promised the pretty girl you'd go back for her'. But then I was a pretty unromantic child.

Yes, likewise - though arguably the getting married is part of his responsibilities, in terms of political stability (not that it did him much good, as far as he knows for most of his life). Poor old Caspian...

[sacred-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

Poor Caspian, gives up chance at end-of-world exploring (though if he was Caspian the seafarer he can hardly have stayed at home all the time) to have wife and son, both of whom are stolen away from him (and without mysterious other-worlders or Aslan to come in and save him/them, as far as he knows at the time)

[tree_and_leaf]

It's only just occurred to me that Caspian and his embarrassingly-nameless-wife must have been married for ages before Rillian was born. Rillian's a prisoner for ten years, and is described as a 'new knight' when his mother dies, which I reckon makes him about twenty five in 'The Silver Chair'. It's not clear how old Caspian is in 'Dawn Treader', but I don't see how he can possibly be over twenty five, and Caspian is clearly a long way over fifty when he dies, even if we assume that he's aged with grief.

But yes, Caspian has a fairly rotten deal, in some ways.

[tree_and_leaf]

I was dead jealous of Jill, because my Guide unit subscribed to the idea camping and outdoors stuff was an optional extra no-one actually wanted, which is spectacularly missing the point. (The Guider was a nice woman, but she should have been running Brownies or even Rainbows, because she was chiefly interested in doing crafts).

[sacred-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

Sounds the exact opposite to my Guides. I had no badges or craft-making, but as much camping, woodcraft and wide games as we could possibly manage. And then when I was young leader for them I started a bit of crafting, which was appreciated by the less gung-ho members of the troup, I think!

[bookwormsarah.livejournal.com]

I think I am the only person left who has not seen Prince Caspian (and who wants to). Must rectify this as soon as possible.

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

Nope. Me too.

[tree_and_leaf]

Is it still running in Britain?

[tree_and_leaf]

It's definitely worth seeing.

[estelyn-strider.livejournal.com]

I saw it this week too, dubbed in German, so not with the original voices/dialogues, which often colours my impression (usually not favourably). For all the comments I'd read about it being darker and more grown-up, I must say that I found it rather boringly simplistic. The main flaw in my opinion is that the fighting was stretched out to a major part of the movie, whereas it takes up only a few pages in the book. It was like 'The Two Towers' movie all over again - "hey, we have all of these nifty effects and weapons and make-up, let's get our money's worth out of it!"

Oh well - worth seeing once, but I doubt that I will repeat the experience. But then I've grown out of the books as well...

[tree_and_leaf]

There was definitely too much fighting, which is not what the story as it's told in the book is about, and the siege machinery was just daft... actually, at times I wondered if Weta were economising by using what had landed on the cutting room floor for Two Towers and Return of the King!

I'd like to see it again in O-Ton, though, and without the weird Telmarine accent (what do you suppose it was meant to be? I read a review which said 'Eastern European', which I'm not convinced by - and the rest of the review was so inaccurate, I don't think I trust it anyway..,

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

Agreed with all of it, heartily. I know other people find him underdeveloped and/or annoyingly high-handed, but in all honesty I've always liked Peter a lot, especially as he gets older. So I was very disappointed to see the way he was treated in this film -- it was like an even more extreme example of the mishandling Aragorn and particularly Faramir got in the Jackson LotR.

I mean, I find marble saints as annoying as the next person, but there's still a lot of leeway there before you get to "clueless twit" -- do the filmmakers really believe that heroic characters have to be dragged through the mud in order to be credible or interesting to a 21st-century audience? Sigh.

[tree_and_leaf]

- it was like an even more extreme example of the mishandling Aragorn and particularly Faramir got in the Jackson LotR.

Yes - and I agree that it's frustrating. I liked Peter - he's not the most obviously complex of the characters in Narnia, but he's very likable and I do think he has enough depth to be interesting - or at least that you can extrapolate depth without doing such violence to the character.

Although I think I'll never be more annoyed than about what Peter Jackson did to Faramir... (Aragorn was bad enough, but Faramir...!)

[rj-anderson.livejournal.com]

I think I'll never be more annoyed than about what Peter Jackson did to Faramir

Word to that. I personally can't stand the taste of alcohol, but by the time Movie!Faramir was taking the hobbits to Isengard (what did you say?), I was starting to feel like I needed a very, very stiff drink.