This serves me right for reading the Grauniad online when I should be working

[tree_and_leaf]

Sigh. Dear Stuart Jeffries: even if Scotland does achieve independence, that caravan site just north of Berwick will not become the most northern point on the British mainland, because that's a geographical term and not a political one, ok?† And a place in Ireland is never going to be the most northerly point in Britain, for related reasons. (Quite apart from the fact that, as my astute flisties point out, Donegal is in Eire, which hasn't belonged to Britain for some time).

Also, I really shouldn't read 'Comment is Free' postings on religion, because it's full of self-congratulatory atheists who think that all religious people are fascists, and that the Church of England is a reactionary cult aiming to impose sharia law on Britain, which is unlikely for many reasons, including the great difficulty in getting the C of E to agree on anything other than that going to church is a nice thing to do. Anyone who admits to being religious and suggests that, actually, they don't want to take over the world and that quite a lot of British socialism came out of a religious background gets accused of being a 'dung-breathed fundamentalist' who thinks that Marx was a Catholic.*

† Unless the SNP have updated their manifesto to include "Digging a Really Big Ditch, like in 'Asterix and the Great Divide'", but I somehow doubt it.

* This is, of course, nonsense. He was Lutheran (though hardly believing).

ETA: edited for my own poor geopolitical skils *headdesk* *strowes head with ashes*

Comments

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

I spotted the most northerly place, too, and am looking forward to tomorrow's letters column. I assume the moron Jeffries is a southerner - Home Counties southerner at that.

You shouldn't read "Comment is Free" on anything unless you suffer from dangerously low blood pressure.

[tree_and_leaf]

You shouldn't read "Comment is Free" on anything unless you suffer from dangerously low blood pressure.

This is very true. I'm not sure why I keep forgetting it (although it's probably not unconnected to my shameful lack of a work ethic!)

[sacred-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

It wasn't commetn is free, but the comments section on another newspaper's website (can't quite remember which one now) in the interests of procrastination and found myself reading responses to a comment piece on Cameron's latest speech about rape convictions. Now that was bad for my blood pressure! Victim-blaming doesn't even come close to describing it!

I'm not sure about about a Really Big Ditch - being a traditionalist, I don't see what's wrong with a nice wall, bristling with soldiers ;)

[tree_and_leaf]

Oh dear. Whatever CiF's - myriad - faults, you don't find many idiots of that kidney there (at least, not that are willing to admit it, she added cynically).

Walls are of course classier, depsite the bad press they've had recently, but I was thinking the only way to rescue Jeffries contention was to turn Scotland into a seperate landmass (forward to the Jurassic, or whichever geological era it was when Scotland was an island in the Pacific....)

[eagles-rock.livejournal.com]

And a place in Donegal, Republic of Ireland, will not be the most northern point in a 'UK sans Scotland' entity. Nor the UK as it stands, nor the British Isles, as you say.

I must admit though, the 'Duke of Milton Keynes' made me laugh. Unlike most of Cif, which is just weep-inducing argument fodder; surely there must be a competition to see what bilge gets most replies?

Duke of Milton Keynes is, admittedly, funny.

[tree_and_leaf]

Very true.

Stuart Jeffries is funny as a TV reviewer, but he doesn't seem to know very much about anything else.

surely there must be a competition to see what bilge gets most replies?

It's the only explanation; I imagine some sort of prizegiving at the Grauniad Christmas party, possibly with special bonus prizes for threads that get the most number of comments modded.

I think the thing that most astonished me was the way that, when Maureen Lipman used to write a (rather fluffy, but mostly amusing) column, you could garantee that, whatever the subject of the article, within five posts the debate would have turned into an argument about Israel; or mostly a series of denouncements of Israel. I don't really like the Israeli government, and I have little patience with the argument that criticising Israel makes you anti-semitic - but that sort of behaviour does make you wonder.

[eagles-rock.livejournal.com]

Israel - so much more than just a football team. As if that wasn't enough. Couldn't agree with you more.

The bile is so strong, the hatred so complete, the anonymity so empowering.

[tree_and_leaf]

Yes, it's quite frightening how some people behave when they know there are no consequences. The one thing to be said in CiF's favour is that it makes even the wankiest bits of LJ look polite, rational and well-brought up.

I've just remembered that I actually have an icon showing Maureen Lipman, namely this one (so this is practically a GIC).

[carlanime.livejournal.com]

the great difficulty in getting the C of E to agree on anything other than that going to church is a nice thing to do.

That's nearly enough to win converts, right there. *adores*

[tree_and_leaf]

Personally, I think it's the only basis for an evangelism strategy that has any chance of any success at all....

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

And a place in Northern Ireland is never going to be the most northerly point in Britain, for related reasons.

NNNNARGH! I'm glad I avoided that article. I'm sick of having to explain to my thickie fellow Englishmen that Ireland is not, never has been and never will be part of Britain. Oddly the Scots and Welsh don't have a problem with this harrowingly intricate distinction.
Though Co. Donegal is in northern Ireland, btw, it's not in Northern Ireland. Can I have a cookie?

[tree_and_leaf]

With pleasure. Chocolate chip?

I am now off to throw dust and ashes over my head as penance for my own ignorance....

[lilliburlero.livejournal.com]

Fox's crunch cream, if you have 'em.

Oh, I wouldn't bother. Not when it's quite usual to refer to the northernmost point of Ireland as being in the "South".

[tree_and_leaf]

It will have to be something continental, I'm afraid - I've got some rather nice nut-and-orange-zest things from Basel?

Not when it's quite usual to refer to the northernmost point of Ireland as being in the "South". They're just trying to be confusing, aren't they?

Incidentally, the icon's great!

[themolesmother.livejournal.com]

I'm getting rather sick of the Grauniad myself these days as so many of the commentators seem to be clever-clever up their own fundament post-modernists. Can't give it up, though. I've been reading it since the 70s and its become a habit.

MM

[tree_and_leaf]

I know what you mean - but what else would you read?† The Indy's boring, the Times is a rightwing mess, and the Telegraph... is a better paper than the Times, but unfortunately somewhere to the right of Ghengis Khan.

Also, I refuse to buy anything in Tabloid format.

† If I lived in Scotland, there'd at least be the Herald option, but though I like the Herald a lot, it's so bloody Glasgow-centric. Although having said that, it's no worse than being London-obsessed like the English papers...

[overconvergent.livejournal.com]

I read The Times in Oxford, as they win on my own personal scale (they have a daily chess column which I can often solve).

[tree_and_leaf]

Everybody has their own priorities....

(Kipling)

[overconvergent.livejournal.com]

... Let each man be judged by his deeds.
I have paid my price to live with myself on the terms that I willed.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

Sadly, I suspect that (unless I'm surrendering to prejudice) the London and Westminster commentariat probably wouldn't have noticed Jeffries's slip; and the whole piece reeks of London's failure to take Scotland and Scottish politics seriously. Scottish affairs are rarely discussed on UK news programmes, except to bring up the funding issue again and again.

[tree_and_leaf]

I know, it drives me mad - and if you say anything, then you're instantly marked down as a chippy nationalist (when in fact that's precisely the attitude which CREATES chippy nationalists). Mind you, they don't treat the North of England any better,† and as for the Welsh...

Anyway, if they don't want our shortbread, I know plenty of people who do.

† The Gaurdian is as bad as all the rest, these days. They should never have moved down south.

Going off on a tangent

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

I once had a discussion with a civil servant friend (of north-eastern descent, but brought up in Yorkshire, two clear different places at least) who rebuked me for the north-east voting against devolution. I almost had what would have been a very detailed discussion with a leading figure in Welsh society (whose name I didn't know, but everyone was very respectful towards him) at a book launch on the same question.

The main reasons were that the north-east as understood by Whitehall doesn't really exist on the ground in the sense that it has no defined boundaries. It was no accident that the highest 'no' votes were in Middlesbrough and Redcar & Cleveland, two authorities whose territory lies entirely within the historic county of Yorkshire. The question of the north-eastern authority's powers not having been defined was another one; and the sense that the region was being condescended to, again, with talk of provision for a cadre of unelected members on the assembly, so that major business figures (for example) could be added, nominated by central government or by the regional administration, was another.

I should get a Tyneside icon of some description...

Re: Going off on a tangent

[tree_and_leaf]

Yes, the English regional auhtorities were poorly thought out, but the government apparenly didn't realise that people were rejecting the details as much as the principle.