Tolkien stuff
Mar. 6th, 2006 04:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tree_and_leafI'm not doing the B2MEM thing, because I don't feel organised enough to commit to regular ficcish posts; but on the other hand it made me think about share-worthy things in Tolkien.
I've recently bought a copy of the Hammond and Scull line-by-line commentary on LOTR (well, it's not quite line by line, but it's that style) which is full of interesting nuggets of information. I was particularly taken by Tolkien's reasons, as explained in a letter, for choosing 'nazg' as the Black Speech word for 'ring'. It is vaguely based on Gaelic 'nasc', meaning 'ring', but also with a strong semantic link to verbs to do with binding. That's fun: not knowing the Gaelic cognate won't stop you understanding the text, but if you do, it adds an additional bit of linguistic pleasure. There are so few works of literature out there which cater to philology nerds.
Furthermore: as I've mentioned, I've been reading up on St Dominic recently, and the commonest form of his legend relates that at his baptism his godmother saw a star resting on his brow; in later life, one witness wrote, he always seemed to have a light about his forehead.* Now on reading the 'star on his brow' passage, I found myself thinking that that sounded awfully familiar, but I couldn't think why.
Until I remembered Frodo's dream about the Numenoreans in the house of Bombadil, where the last of the kings 'had a star on his brow'. This is clearly Aragorn. Now while I don't think Tolkien intends us to connect Aragorn with Dominic, I wonder if that's where he got the idea from, possibly unconsciously? And on thinking about it further, there is something of the ideal of apostolic poverty about Aragorn in Strider-mode. He wanders the wilderness, apparently alone a lot of the time, and with very few possessions (there are no references to Aragorn having much luggage!); he does carry his sword, but that has more symbolic importance than anything else. He is not, apparently, acting as a great leader of men (although, of course, he is the chieftain of the Dunedain, and thus presumably takes some role in directing their guarding of the West), and he gets little recognition from those he is working for, who view him as a scruffy, unimpressive figure. But in fact, that merely exposes their own superficiality: all that is gold does not glitter...
*Actually the oldest manuscripts of Jordan of Saxony, who originates the story, say it was a moon, seen by his mother, but that's by the way. The witness was Celia Cesarini, who seems to have been very taken with him - but apparently people were, in general.
I've recently bought a copy of the Hammond and Scull line-by-line commentary on LOTR (well, it's not quite line by line, but it's that style) which is full of interesting nuggets of information. I was particularly taken by Tolkien's reasons, as explained in a letter, for choosing 'nazg' as the Black Speech word for 'ring'. It is vaguely based on Gaelic 'nasc', meaning 'ring', but also with a strong semantic link to verbs to do with binding. That's fun: not knowing the Gaelic cognate won't stop you understanding the text, but if you do, it adds an additional bit of linguistic pleasure. There are so few works of literature out there which cater to philology nerds.
Furthermore: as I've mentioned, I've been reading up on St Dominic recently, and the commonest form of his legend relates that at his baptism his godmother saw a star resting on his brow; in later life, one witness wrote, he always seemed to have a light about his forehead.* Now on reading the 'star on his brow' passage, I found myself thinking that that sounded awfully familiar, but I couldn't think why.
Until I remembered Frodo's dream about the Numenoreans in the house of Bombadil, where the last of the kings 'had a star on his brow'. This is clearly Aragorn. Now while I don't think Tolkien intends us to connect Aragorn with Dominic, I wonder if that's where he got the idea from, possibly unconsciously? And on thinking about it further, there is something of the ideal of apostolic poverty about Aragorn in Strider-mode. He wanders the wilderness, apparently alone a lot of the time, and with very few possessions (there are no references to Aragorn having much luggage!); he does carry his sword, but that has more symbolic importance than anything else. He is not, apparently, acting as a great leader of men (although, of course, he is the chieftain of the Dunedain, and thus presumably takes some role in directing their guarding of the West), and he gets little recognition from those he is working for, who view him as a scruffy, unimpressive figure. But in fact, that merely exposes their own superficiality: all that is gold does not glitter...
*Actually the oldest manuscripts of Jordan of Saxony, who originates the story, say it was a moon, seen by his mother, but that's by the way. The witness was Celia Cesarini, who seems to have been very taken with him - but apparently people were, in general.
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(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-06 09:48 pm (UTC)Well, I don't think that regular ficcish posts are required for B2MEM. Shareworthy things in Tolkien are quite enough. I've only posted a bit of fanfic because I am not organized enough for meta or smart enough for comparisons with medieval hagiography or dead languages. :)
But these two details above are very, very interesting! What exactly is that lone-by-line commentary on LOTR that you've mentioned?
And as there are already mentions of meeting in the comments, I don't feel that guilty about going a bit off-topic. But here's something I've wanted to ask you for quite some time, only I forgot, scatter-brained as I usually am.
Will you be in Oxford in the first week of August? 'Cause in all likelihood, I'll be spending a week in London from August 1 to August 8 (or maybe 9). If you should happen to be around and feel like having a meeting, it would be nice to see you again.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-06 11:06 pm (UTC)http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/press/Areaderscompanion.htm
Not a book you'd read from cover to cover, but great for dipping into.
I can take no credit for the Gaelic details - I'm just sharing some-one else's research. The Dominic thing - well, I think there are probably quite a lot of probably unconscious echoes of hagiography in Tolkien. Radagast the Brown, for instance, obviously owes something to St Francis (even if he is a Maiar).
On the OT visit topic: I think so, though as Rick said in Casablanca, I never plan that far ahead (translation: I am too disorganosed to have thought about my summer plans) But yes, it would be great to meet up if we can!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-07 07:00 am (UTC)Well, I think there are probably quite a lot of probably unconscious echoes of hagiography in Tolkien. Radagast the Brown, for instance, obviously owes something to St Francis (even if he is a Maiar).
I'd never have thought of that, but it makes sense somehow. The brown robes. The connection to animals. Any more parallels which I'm overlooking?
But yes, it would be great to meet up if we can!
Yay! I'll simply contact you a short time before I go. Then you can tell me whether you've got time or not.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-07 09:11 pm (UTC)