tree_and_leaf: Purple tinted black and white photo of moody man, caption Church Paramilitant (image from "Ultraviolet") (Church Paramilitant)
[personal profile] tree_and_leaf
I was thinking - mid washing-up - about Voyage to Venus, specifically about the way in which the plot requires Ransom to kill Weston, or at least to kill his body if we assume that Weston's soul really is gone and not capable of being restored.

Why isn't some kind of exorcism a possible solution, and why doesn't it even occur to Ransom that it might be?

I mean, yes, the series is full of plot holes, even if you prefer to pretend that That Hideous Strength didn't happen, or alternatively that the Director isn't actually Ransom at all given that he isn't actually all that much like him, Symbolic Wounds aside*, and could have benefited from a rigorous beta reader. But that one seems particularly odd.


* In the immortal words of Dorothy L Sayers, "I liked Ransom better before he took to lying on sofas like the Heir of Redclyffe", though I think she was actually being a little unfair to Yonge there.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-15 06:54 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] caulkhead
Can you exorcise something if the exorcisee actually invited it in (I seem to remember Weston did, though I might be wrong)?

On a Watsonian level, that's all I can think of. Even so, you'd think Ransom would at least consider it, though.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-15 07:01 pm (UTC)
white_hart: (Default)
From: [personal profile] white_hart
Maybe he doesn't have the requisite paraphernalia with him? (It's a very long time since I read the book, so I really can't remember much about it!)

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-16 01:23 pm (UTC)
legionseagle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] legionseagle
I'm now envisaging Captain Jack producing bell, book and candle from wherever he kept his blaster in the Trinny and Susanna robot sequence.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-17 08:14 pm (UTC)
cheyinka: the words 'glory, glory, send your glory' on a golden background (my glorious)
From: [personal profile] cheyinka
What obvious reasons? When my sons were baptized, the mandatory baptism class came right out and called it an exorcism, and I seem to recall the deacon calling it that during the services too, but I could be wrong there. :D

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-15 08:35 pm (UTC)
legionseagle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] legionseagle
I think it's explained in the book that the Un-Man is NOT precisely Weston possessed; it's more like Weston's a zombie. After all, his transformation included his biting the neck off a brandy bottle and swallowing the broken glass. So I think (which is very convenient for Ransom, of course) that Weston has already been "engulfed" by the forces of Evil beyond hope of recall before the whole attempt to tempt The Lady begins.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-16 01:22 pm (UTC)
legionseagle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] legionseagle
Every time I attempt to read Milton I get hopelessly bogged down, but I keep suspecting that Perelandra makes more sense if one is familiar with Paradise Lost and Comus.

But the whole setup sounds hinky from the start. Why Ransom?

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-17 10:33 am (UTC)
nineveh_uk: Illustration that looks like Harriet Vane (Harriet)
From: [personal profile] nineveh_uk
I rather liked Comus, though I can't remember any of it beyond that fact.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-17 01:49 pm (UTC)
nineveh_uk: Illustration that looks like Harriet Vane (Harriet)
From: [personal profile] nineveh_uk
That may be the crucial difference - it was my first (with Areopagitica).

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-17 08:15 pm (UTC)
cheyinka: the words 'glory, glory, send your glory' on a golden background (religious)
From: [personal profile] cheyinka
From a theological standpoint you'd think exorcising a possessed corpse would be easier than exorcising a possessed person, much like exorcising, I don't know, a possessed cupboard.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-16 12:52 am (UTC)
philosophymom: books by the pound (books)
From: [personal profile] philosophymom
It's called Voyage to Venus on your side of the pond? I'm disappointed in me for not knowing that, since Perelandra is my favorite of the Ransom books.

Is CSL on the record regarding exorcism?

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-16 06:50 pm (UTC)
white_hart: (Default)
From: [personal profile] white_hart
My copy (1983 Pan edition) is called Perelandra (Voyage to Venus), so I think they may have restored the original title at some point.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-16 07:55 am (UTC)
serriadh: (Default)
From: [personal profile] serriadh
I wondered if CSL just didn't consider exorcism part of a modern, robust Christianity, but if Ransom is (at least partly) inspired/patterned on Tolkien, surely an exorcism would have been something he'd consider.

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-17 03:31 pm (UTC)
kivrin: Giles with a book (bookish giles (glim))
From: [personal profile] kivrin
Tangent to say I've just started reading Yonge in the past year and a half or so - hooray, Project Gutenberg - and though I have yet to read the great classic Heir of Redclyff I enjoyed Pillars of the House so very much. I've also read The Daisy Chain, The Trial (I wasn't expecting a legal trial to feature in it along with spiritual trials!), and The Young Stepmother. I couldn't really get in to Dyvenor Terrace but I'm still toting it about on the e-reader. Do you have any favorites?

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-17 04:28 pm (UTC)
kivrin: Peter Wimsey in academic dress (academic lord peter)
From: [personal profile] kivrin
[breaks speed record downloading Three Brides] Thank you!

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-19 11:24 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] molniya

*delurks* May I ask what you mean when you say 'Watsonian' in this context?

In any case, now I want to reread Out of the Silent Planet!

(no subject)

Date: 2016-05-20 10:59 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] molniya
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks!

(no subject)

Date: 2016-07-07 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ethelmay.livejournal.com
Weighing in very late to say that I think Sayers was probably thinking of Charlie Edmonstone as the sofa-lyer, not the actual Heir.

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