Seeking opinions from people who have cats

[tree_and_leaf]

So we are thinking about getting a cat (we've not thought much further than this, but then we wouldn't be able to do anything about it until mid September, when we get back from the States).

I would like a cat, but I am hesitating, largely because I quite like our local wildlife population (we have a lot of small birds, including a regular visit from a willow warbler, lots of frogs, and a lot of voles/ fieldmice). And, obviously, cats will do what cats do.

Someone suggested keeping the cat inside, and I know that some people do do this, but I am not entirely sure that's kind to the cat. We have a big house (four bedrooms and a study), but of course that's not remotely the same as having freedom to wander about outside, and I worry the cat would get bored/ frustrated.

What do you, oh cat-owning/ loving flisties think? I may end up concluding that I can't cope with the prospect of the cat cutting a swathe through the local wildlife, but I would rather just not have one than keep it inside all the time, if that would be bad for the cat...

Comments

[twtd]

I've had 5 cats thus far: Xavier, Menotti, Oberon, Titania, and Rip (the last three at the same time) and never let any of them outside.

Xavier lived in our 4 bedroom house and died of old age while I was away in college. Menotti is living with my mom in her two bedroom apartment and the garage is as far outside as he gets (he likes to chase the occasional roach). The ex got the last three in the break-up and they've lived everywhere from a small one bedroom apartment, to a two story townhouse, to a 800 sq.ft. loft.

For what it's worth, for Oberon and Titania, the vet tech that we got them from made us promise her that we wouldn't let them outside before she would let us adopt them. She really wanted to make sure that they wouldn't run away from us (they were originally strays). Rip was a stray too, and while she was frustrated for a couple of days, she quickly became the laziest of lazy things and now she wouldn't go outside if there was a door standing open in front of her and injured prey lying just across the threshold. Yet somehow she stays tiny (we're convinced she's part demon).

None of my cats has seemed persistently unhappy, bored, or frustrated (occasionally, of course, because cats can be moody). Some of them were in spaces about the same size as yours, some of them were in spaces much smaller. They've all had various toys which sometimes got played with and sometime got completely ignored. It probably depends on the temperament of the cat

[cleo]

As the aforementioned ex, I can vouch for what twtd has said about Oberon, Titania, and Rip. Oberon and Rip now live upstairs in a 1000+ sq foot apartment. They have four bedrooms and a bathroom at their disposal. Rip loves hanging out in the coat closet and bathroom. Oberon happily prowls the entire upstairs and the downstairs landing. He is sometimes listless, but I think that's because Titania is no longer with us (she passed away a year and a half ago) and he and Rip don't play well together. I would also recommend having some upwards space for an indoor cat...shelving or ways for the cat to get on top of shelves and the like. Some cats aren't into tall spaces, but it's good to have the option.

Also, my fiancé's cats live downstairs in the living and dining rooms, enclosed porch, kitchen, and bathroom. Occasionally, they go out on the unenclosed porch. They have lived in larger and smeller apartments, but they're old and happy!

For the sake of being thorough, I will say that I grew up with indoor/outdoor cats in an area with lots of wildlife, including birds and fish. Occasionally our male cats would bring in a bird or a small squirrel. We never got gifts from our female cats. All the cats were spayed/neutered. I think because our cats were well fed and cared for and much loved, they did not regularly hunt. The local wildlife definitely thrived despite the occasional mishap.

To echo what twtd has said, all of my strictly indoor cats have been happy and healthy. We give them lots of love and attention and lots of toys. I think the key is paying attention to what the particular cat likes and catering to its needs (Oberon prefers to play on his own or with other cats but loves cuddles and tall things, for example. Rip, just wants to lie around and eat and be brushed and rub her teeth against feet, by contrast). Also, indoor cats live longer, healthier lives!

[tree_and_leaf]

Thanks! I suspect the hunting thing is also a lot to do with the cat's personality.

[cleo]

It's so true! Titania was the cuddliest cat ever but a menace to bugs. I suspect she would have been bad for the local ecosystem if we'd let her out!

[tree_and_leaf]

Thanks for this! You're probably right about the temperament playing a big role (if only it was easier to tell how a kitten will grow up...)

[zooey_glass]

Here via my network.

I believe that many animal organisations now recommend that you have indoor only cats. If you have an indoor cat, you have to play with them a lot more and make sure you have a lot of things to stimulate them, but providing you do that you can definitely have a happy, healthy indoor cat. I have lots of friends who have gone down this route.

That said, if you want an indoor cat, my suggestion would be to get a rescue cat who is already known to be a happy indoor cat. You can definitely raise cats to be indoor cats, but it depends a LOT on the cat's personality. I got a kitten planning to raise him as an indoor cat, but from the moment he was big enough to get on a window ledge he devoted his life to getting outside. He would paw at the windows, mewl piteously to go outside, launch himself at my front door so he could hang by his paws from the window at the top (this is a hilarious thing to come home to) and escape any time he could. I thought he was going to be an indoor cat: he felt differently about the matter! Eventually I gave in and let him go outside, and he now spends the majority of his time outdoors. (My house is much smaller than yours, though, so his intense desire to go outside might have been partly due to wanting more territory.)

If you do get a kitten and are prepared to accept the possibility that it might be a cat that just really wants to live outside, then I recommend getting it used to a collar right away. If you are anything like me then asking your vet to put a collar on is a good way forward: I am totally terrified of putting a collar on too tightly, and as a result my cat always manages to lose his collar. When the vet puts it on, it survives much better! If you have a collar, you can put a bell on it, which does help alert wildlife if the cat is outdoors.

[tree_and_leaf]

That's useful; thanks. We'd probably not be going for a kitten, cute though they are, as we both work unpredictable hours, and that doesn't work well with young animals.

[kotturinn]

Also here via network.

It depends on the cat. Trite but true. My cats have not been great hunters; also the older the cat the less inclined to go to the effort but you trade that off against a shorter time together. Having said that my current cat was about 12 when adopted 11 years ago! The rescue centres will, as zooey_glass says, know which of their cats would be suitable for indoor living.

Cats can also adapt. My youngest niece adopted an ex-stray who was FIV positive and thus no longer allowed outside (risk to/of other cats). For the last 9 years he thinks he's been in clover. They've only ever lived in 1- and 2-bed flats and never ground floor ones. They are likely to continue to adopt cats others would rather not and if they ever did get a garden they would likely create some kind of fully enclosed area. The downside of indoor cats is the litter tray issue.

Belling the cat is another approach. However that won't completely deter the consummate hunter as friends have recently discovered; their most recent adoptee comes after a line of cats largely disinterested in providing their own food and even belled is managing quite a number of catches. To be fair, he does dispatch swiftly and then consume his catches.

[tree_and_leaf]

Thanks - that's useful perspective.

[liseuse]

We've always had outdoor cats (and I have that same instinctive feeling about it being Not Quite Right Somehow to keep cats inside) and due to various misadventures with collars (one nearly hanged (hung? I can never get that right) themselves from a tree branch as a kitten and the other got their leg stuck in it and nearly broke it) they aren't collared or belled. So we just put up with the occasional dead animal - neither of them are the most exuberant of hunters so it's not a regular stream of corpses.

A friend of mine did adopt a cat from the local rescue place that was FIV positive and therefore not allowed to go outside, so she's coping well with the idea of having an indoor cat and the cat seems remarkably happy - but it's been an indoor cat since it was very small so shows no inclination whatsoever to dash for the door. The rescue place should know which of their cats would be most suited to a life indoors if you decide to go that route.

[tree_and_leaf]

Thanks - I think you're certainly right about consulting with the rescue place on the issue.

[em_h]

I have an indoor cat (a rescued stray). Every now and then she'll sneak out the door, get about six inches out, and then you can see her thinking, "OMG, now I remember, I HATE IT out here!"

She hunts mice in the house, climbs up doors, plays with whatever's lying around, and generally seems to keep herself happy and amused.

[tree_and_leaf]

Every now and then she'll sneak out the door, get about six inches out, and then you can see her thinking, "OMG, now I remember, I HATE IT out here!"

That's rather funny - I can just imagine the expression!

[sollers]

According to a study shown on television recently, well-fed cats can't be arsed to cut a swathe through the local wildlife; they're more inclined to sneak into each other's houses and snap up any left-over dinner. After detailed study of over a dozen cats over a period of a week there were, I think, a total of four or five "kills" (inverted commas because some might have been scavenging).

Your cat would also be an incomer in an area where territories would already have been claimed by other cats, which would further limit the potential.

Ecologically speaking, for most birds and small mammals only a small minority reach adulthood, and predation by cats isn't the main cause of this - lack of food is the main one.

[tree_and_leaf]

Ecologically speaking, for most birds and small mammals only a small minority reach adulthood, and predation by cats isn't the main cause of this - lack of food is the main one.

That's a good point. And there are plenty of cats about, so our hypothetical cat would probably have to be quite good to get a look in!

[17catherines]

I have two cats and very little wisdom. Ours were raised as indoor kittens, but we actually introduced them to the outside world, because my impression was always that cats need access to the outside just as much as humans do. I have no idea whether this is accurate. We do have them inside at night (cat door gets locked when dinner is served), which reduces danger to them and to local wildlife. They are definitely more inclined to hunt than we would like, and after several hair-raising collar misadventures, we stopped trying to collar them, though they are microchipped and registered with the council.

So... I suspect we get only middling points for responsible cat ownership; we keep them pretty safe, but my conscience with regard to local wildlife is far from clear.

Having said all this, we got these cats partly because we had a mouse problem (indoors!), and we knew the mother was a very good hunter. So we did rather bring this on ourselves. If you are getting a cat as a kitten, it might be worth enquiring after the mother's habits.

Oh, and the cat we had growing up was an outdoor cat, but she was terrified of birds and mice, so hunting wasn't really a problem. I think she brought in a skink tail once, but had no idea what it was or what to do with it. She wasn't a very bright girl, that one.

Catherine

[tree_and_leaf]

She wasn't a very bright girl, that one.

She doesn't sound it!

warning: nightmare discussion

[quinfirefrorefiddle]

I come in on the end of "all indoors, all the time"- those are the only kind of cats I'd be willing to adopt. My current cat was a farm kitten who I adopted a little too early as the farm owner recognized she was way too fearless for her own good and was going to get herself eaten. Part of adoption, for me, includes being personally responsible for her safety and well being for the rest of her life, and I can't do that if she's an outdoor cat. I can't really cope with the idea of an outdoor cat- I get that farm cats are a necessity and not pets, and I get that most cats who have grown up that way and learned how to from their moms are very capable of taking care of themselves outdoors in general conditions.

I guess the fandom way to put is is that I have an animal harm squick that gets particularly severe when it comes to cats- I can't cope with the idea of cats being mistreated or neglected or even looked at mean. I first read your post this morning upon waking up from a nightmare where an aunt-in-law who I'm not terribly fond of insisted on bringing my cat with us to a mall or something, and kept leaving the van doors open so she could escape, despite my pleading and screaming at her. Dreams like that have been a pretty normal part of my life- maybe a couple times a year- since I've had cats (since I was six). I hear parents sometimes get similar nightmares about their kids. I remember one dream, with a previous cat, where there'd been a fire or a break in or something and I had just barely escaped death, and I didn't give a shit because the firemen had left the front door open, damn it, and the cat had run outside in blind terror and was now hiding who knows where and completely incapable of defending herself and how would I ever find her?

So this is not a subject I'm terribly rational about. Farm cats lead shorter, more painful lives- there is a reason why they aren't often named- and indoor/outdoor cats run the same risks. I know people who have had indoor/outdoor cats, and off the top of my head I can't think of any where the cat died a natural death at home (or put to sleep at the vet). Some died violently, some just disappeared, and some may well have died natural deaths but it was pretty hard to tell since it took awhile to find the body. It isn't pleasant to think about, but it's the responsibility of a pet owner to do so. Before adopting an outdoor cat, can you deal with the risks and possibilities? Because pets are a privilege, not a right.

Re: warning: nightmare discussion

[ankaret]

Oh, you get those too? I get nightmares where I'm trying to ride herd on two cats and my toddling younger brother, who in reality is now thirty-one and does something complicated in investments.

Re: warning: nightmare discussion

[tree_and_leaf]

Thanks. The nightmares sound very unpleasant...

[kindkit]

I grew up in the country, so when I was a kid we had outdoor cats. And they all died long before their natural lifespans were over--died or just disappeared. Some of them probably wandered away, and some were probably eaten by coyotes (not likely to be a problem in the UK), but on the other hand our cats didn't face roads full of traffic, which I expect would be the biggest danger to outdoor cats in any town or suburb.

As an adult I've never had a cat myself, but for almost three years (until a couple of months ago) I shared a two-bedroom apartment with someone who had three cats. And they were fine. They liked to look out of the windows when they had the chance, but I didn't see any sign that they were pining. They had toys and each other's company to keep from getting bored. As far as I know they'd all been raised to be indoor cats, and I think it could be unpleasant for a cat used to being outdoors to suddenly find itself not allowed out, so that's something to consider if you're adopting an adult cat.

I'd say it's best to keep the cat indoors for the cat's own sake in addition to your concerns about birds etc.

ETA: Here's what the American Humane Association has to say on the subject.

[tree_and_leaf]

Thanks for you advice (though I'm amused to note that the RSPCA is much less convinced. There seem to be cultural differences there, too!)

[skygiants]

We've had two cats who were adopted as kittens. Both were born outside, and were intended by us to be indoor cats. One promptly dedicated his life to going outside, and therefore became an indoor/outdoor cat so that he wouldn't kill himself by jumping out the third-story window; the other was terrified of the outdoors, and would not set foot past the front door. (For the record, and to counteract the outdoor-cat horror stories below, both died at home of natural causes, and the outdoor cat lived several years longer than the indoor.)

So basically, it really depends on the personality of the cat! Getting a slightly older cat who's used to being indoors is probably a bonus, though. We have two new cats now, adopted as adults from a shelter, and neither of them seems particularly interested in going outside. I think it does help to have two, if that's feasible, so that they can entertain each other when people aren't around.

[tree_and_leaf]

Yeah, I think that if we go down the indoor route we definitely want two cats. Possibly we should two anyway.

Thank you!

[ankaret]

Ours are both indoor cats, because we live on a busy road. They amuse themselves perfectly well inside by alternately chasing and ignoring one another, demanding attention from us, and playing with the huge number of cat toys they've accrued over the years. Then again, there's two of them and I work from home - I can see that a lone indoor cat whose owners worked long hours might get bored, though once again it all depends on the personality of the cat.

Kosh did go out when she was younger, until she disgraced herself by persistently eating other cats' food and being strongly implicated in the disappearance of the lady next door's budgie. She's now fifteen and not interested in much beyond beating up her toy mouse and getting her meals on time.

[legionseagle]

I cannot help imagining a scene out of Life on Mars with Gene Hunt attempting to get your cat to cough to budgie slaughter and retreating defeated muttering, "I know she did it!"

[tree_and_leaf]

While Sam unsuccessfully tries to reason with it...

[ankaret]

I have to say, great as my respect is for the Guv, I would bet on Kosh in that situation. She made weird expandy noises like a squashed hot water bottle for some days, but never actually produced an incriminating feather.

[legionseagle]

"Say what you like about that one, she never coughed. Not a furball."

[tree_and_leaf]

because we live on a busy road

That's the other issue; we're on a quiet cul-de-sac, but it's not that far to the Halifax road, which is busy. In fact come to think of it, I'd have to measure, but I'm not sure a shelter would rehome to us (except for an indoor car).

[ankaret]

Ours do get to run round the garden on occasion, which Kosh treats as an excuse to mark everything in sight in case any other cat in the neighbourhood gets ideas and Bean uses to hang around by the back door eating grass until she's startled by the sun going behind a cloud or something similar and runs back inside.

[pinesandmaples]

We also have a pair of indoor cats. Mama was a feral stray who followed the Farmer home and refuses to leave again. I agree with the advice above about adopting a cat that is proven to want an indoor life because it's not cruel to give the cat what they crave. Keeping them inside also reduces the diseases and pests that a cat is exposed to; we consider underexposure to ticks, fleas, heartworm, rabies, and other kitty diseases to be a gift to them, not a hardship.

If you adopt from a shelter or rescue group and you intend to only have one cat, consider asking for a cat that prefers to live alone. There are such cats in the world! Otherwise, you'll get a bored (and probably destructive) only cat that shouldn't be an only cat. Or bring home a bonded pair. 1200 sq feet is not too small for a pair of cats. Heck, I consider a well-constructed 800 sq ft place to be ideal for a pair of cats! (Our cats require a set of stairs for proper entertainment. 800 sq ft and a set of stairs? They are all about it.)

[tree_and_leaf]

Well, rabies isn't an issue in the UK (thankfully), but the rest is still relevant. Thanks for your advice!

[kerravonsen]

We had cats when I was a child, and they were always indoor/outdoor cats. I don't think we even considered that having an indoor cat was even an option. But outdoor cats do tend to get run over by cars. 8-(

[tree_and_leaf]

It's not all that usual over here, either.

[cloudsinvenice]

After we lost a cat to FIV in my teens, we decided our next one would be an indoor cat. The local Cats Protection shelter had the perfect boy for us - he was nearly five, and prior to the death of his elderly owner had been an indoor cat - or at least, that's what they told us, most likely in good faith and based on the testimony of whoever had brought the cat in after the lady's death.

In practice, he tried to get out any time the front door was open. It had always been our plan to walk him with a harness and lead (we had to get "puppy" size; he was of a size with our current Borrowed Cat), and we did that (quiet suburb), though not without some misadventures, but due to various health problems we both had, Mum and I drifted into supplementing this by letting him wander out into the garden unharnessed/leashed when we were hanging the washing out, weeding etc. He enjoyed it, and seemed happier. And so he drifted into having outdoor access (we already had an old cat flap, which we unlocked) for the rest of his life.

He turned out not to be much of a hunter - I can think of only two occasions when he actually caught something, and the second was a few days before he died (perhaps he meant to leave us well provisioned?). Cats vary enormously in their hunting proficiency - Borrowed Cat is very good at it, so we've had to rescue/bury a few things, and seen him eat many more. [ETA: And of course, the cat who never brings anything home might still be catching and eating wildlife...]

I almost think you might need to put the word out that you're looking to rehome a cat, either a confirmed and definite indoor cat (because unlike the cat of my teens, there certainly are cats who are used to and settled to indoor life) or an incredibly poor hunter. I would ask at local vets' practices, because they're often aware of clients who need to rehome pets, and know the background. I'd also have a talk with your local Cats Protection branch, but be aware that as in our case, they might only know limited/partial stuff about a cat's life before it comes to them.

I hope you are able to get one; they really do enrich your life. :)

[tree_and_leaf]

That's all good advice, thank you!

[faithinseeds]

Our two current kitties are indoor only cats. A little lazy, perhaps, but not bored! (We live in a rural area, and almost lost our previous one to fishers, or coyotes.) They are content. We have a variety of toys, (though Max's favorite is the jar of paintbrushes I keep on my desk) and my mother and sister built a cat tree from scrap pieces of wood. You can see examples of a cat tree here: http://www.cattreefurniture.com/, you can easily make your own, or bribe a woodworking/handyman friend to make it for you.

[tree_and_leaf]

Thanks! The cat trees are great.

[amaresu]

When I was in sixth grade my cat was hit by a car and died. I haven't had a cat that was allowed outdoors since. As long as you play with your cat/give it toys it'll be fine inside. I've never had a problem taking an outdoor cat and turning it into an indoor cat either (one stray and one my sister gave me that she used to let outside). The big thing with cats is that they'll get bored very easily. Indoor cats also live longer, 5 years or so on average.

[tree_and_leaf]

Thanks!

[shewhostaples]

It depends (as pretty much everyone else has said) on the cat - not just as to whether they're indoor or outdoor, but how much they'll bring in. We had one who discovered a rabbit warren and brought a baby rabbit in every other day for a couple of weeks; but her daughter never caught a thing. See if you can find out whether they're hunters before taking them home.

Roads are a real worry, but again, you can't tell. We lost far more cats when there was a three-acre field between us and the road than we have since we moved to a village, then a town.

[tree_and_leaf]

That's probably very true...

Via the network

[rydra_wong]

How about looking for a cat that needs to be an indoor-only cat?

Cat rescue/rehoming places usually have a number of cats who fit the bill, e.g. FIV-positive cats (an FIV-positive cat that's otherwise in good health may have a very good life expectancy, but needs to be an indoor-only cat to avoid transmitting the virus) or cats that have a hearing/vision impairment and can't deal with roads.

Alternatively, a rescue place would be able to advise on the personality/history of an adult cat, and whether they'd do fine indoors or go stir-crazy. Generally, they are fairly no-bullshit about this sort of thing.

I think there is a big cultural division here; it seems much more standard for US cats to be indoor-only (presumably partly to do with coyotes and other things liable to eat cats), whereas the norm in the UK seems to be that cats are indoor/outdoor unless there's a specific reason to restrict them to indoors.

ETA: Having a indoor-only cat doesn't guarantee that you won't get small dead presents, though.

My elderly cat was confined to the house at night on vet's orders (he had only one eye, which affected his night vision) but was a fierce hunter of mice that ventured into the house. Since he also had very few teeth by that age, I had to assume he was gumming them to death.

Re: Via the network

[tree_and_leaf]

I'm inclined to say that any mice that come inside are fair game!

Thanks for your advice (you're right about the cultural division, too).