(no subject)

[tree_and_leaf]

I took a brief look at one of the Narnia fic comms, and scuttled back again fairly rapidly. Is it just me, or is the scariness of fic in inverse proportion to the shippiness/ sexual content of the original canon? I suppose if fan-fiction is about filling in blanks, then it's somewhat logical, but the reverse doesn't seem to be entirely true, otherwise Torchwood fandom would consist almost entirely of long, plotty mystery stories and friendship fics, whereas as far as I can see it's mostly soggy Janto (incidentally, why are some fandoms more prone to silly smushed names than others?). Though Doctor Who-fic is certainly pretty scary at times, and it's a kid's show.

Given the difficulty of finding Narnia-fic that isn't NC-17 incest-fic (I suppose I should be grateful than Ben Barnes is so pretty, as there is now another popular category, R-rated Caspian Does Everyone, but it's a minor consolation), it's maybe a good thing that there's no Swallows and Amazons fandom to speak of. In a way it would be nice if there was a Narnia comm that didn't take incest-fic, but I fear it might not get meet with much interest.†

In other news, Edinburgh is still standing despite the best efforts of the men digging up the roads for the trams, and I had a very good lunch at the Bar Roma in Queensferry St - heartily recommended, if you are in the area; excellent Italian food.

ETA: Have just found - thanks to estelyn_strider - a wonderful Jasper Fforde fic, in which Thursday deals with a problem inside The Lord of the Rings. Extremely funny, a spot-on Thursday voice, and jolly interactions between Thursday and various Tolkien characters, including a justifiably pissed off Boromir and an absolutely brilliant Sauron. Possibly not for you if you have violent objections to off-stage Frodo/ Sam, but I think the Professor himself would have overlooked it given the perfect take on the Dark Lord.... Also includes a Titus Andronicus joke.

† This being fandom, I almost feel that I ought to apologise for saying that, but the switch of 'your kink is not my kink and that's ok' is surely 'I do not want mental images of your kink and that's ok, too'?

Comments

[owl]

I always wonder about the people with the incest kink: don't they have siblings themselves? Surely AUGH AUGH I WANT TO CLAW MY BRAIN OUT THROUGH MY EAR AT THE VERY THOUGHT is the universal response?

[fpb.livejournal.com]

We should be so lucky. But it is the same as to say that people with bondage kinks would not want to use it in real life. And I mentioned one of the less revolting ones.

[tree_and_leaf]

Absolutely (I don't have siblings, as it happens, but my reaction is exactly the same)!

[rivrea.livejournal.com]

I don't think you ought to apologise for what you said. Not at all.
You didn't say anything even remotely like, "everyone who writes kinky NC-17 Narnia incest is a perverse bastard whose comm should be shut down immediately." You just expressed a wish for a community to accommodate your taste and find your favourite kind of fic more quickly and more easily without having to slog through tons of stuff you dislike.

[tree_and_leaf]

Hey, just as long as you don't hold a gun to my head and make me read it (which I can't imagine!)....

[rivrea.livejournal.com]

Damn. There goes my secret masterplan for the next time we happen to meet.

[tree_and_leaf]

Sorry, I'm no fun, am I? *g*

[gramarye1971]

With Narnia-fic, I almost wonder if there isn't a sense of 'in your eye, Jack' about the sexual content. That is, there's smut and incest because it's Narnia, and stomping all over the tea-and-crumpets Lewisian sensibilities is all part of the writer's fun?

*wry* Then again, my feelings on shipping are no secret.

[fpb.livejournal.com]

I think you are exactly right. I also noticed that two of the most abused characters in the HP canon are Lily Evans and Albus Dumbledore, and I think the point is clear: these two are the strongest carriers of moral messages in the whole cycle, images of goodness, self-sacrifice, and positive wisdom, and so they tend to draw all the reflex dislike and suspicion that overt goodness always draws. For certain people to feel secure, they have to be shown to be hypocrites or worse. And in the case of Lily, who is Mother-Love incarnate and embodied, there is also the fact that most HP fics are written by very young women who may well have issues with their own mothers, and want to visit them on Lily.

[tree_and_leaf]

I know there's a lot of fic which bashes Dumbledore, but I don't think I've seen much Lily-bashing. Possibly I move in the wrong circles (though I'm not sure I'm sorry).

[fpb.livejournal.com]

It was something I saw happening in FA a couple of years ago. Every fic featuring Lily seemed to make her either unfaithful to James, or a Death Eater, or otherwise reprehensible. The worst - it seems to have vanished, but I swear to you that I read it - actually shipped her with the giant squid, and I am not, repeat not, joking. Nor did the fic: there was a sickening kind of earnestness about their final farewells that made me want to puke.

[tree_and_leaf]

You mean squid ship fic which isn't played for laughs exists? Good Lord. I shan't be going out to search for it...

[tree_and_leaf]

I think that's probably right, though it's not an impulse that I understand on an emotional level, because I don't want to write fic if I don't like the source text. Of course, I suppose if it's just an aspect of it's that's problematic, it's makes more sense (this is certainly the reason behind the other big Narnia-fic genre, Problem of Susan Fixit Fic).

[fpb.livejournal.com]

You evidently do not have the kind of wound in your soul that leads you to find any overt display of goodness, good sense, good taste, good feeling and good behaviour immediately suspicious. A very large part of mankind would find all these things immediately hypocritical. Read Christopher Hitchens on Mother Theresa to see the kind of mind I mean (and I picked Hitchens just because he is a person who in many other ways is not undeserving of respect).

[estelyn-strider.livejournal.com]

Glad you liked the TN/LotR crossover story! I thought it was excellently done, with so many funny references that it could well have been by Fforde himself. The "Badger" law firm - and the literary reference to Harry Potter! - is hilarious!

[estelyn-strider.livejournal.com]

Oh, and of course the nod to forum discussions - the eagle question *always* comes up at some time or other!

[tree_and_leaf]

It was great - and yes, the reference to Harry Potter was a nice touch! I didn't actually get the badger reference, though, other than that lawyers do badger people....

[estelyn-strider.livejournal.com]

You haven't seen the notorious "Badger Song"?! Go to Youtube and search for it under the above name; you'll find out why...

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

† This being fandom, I almost feel that I ought to apologise for saying that, but the switch of 'your kink is not my kink and that's ok' is surely 'I do not want mental images of your kink and that's ok, too'?

One day I will get round to writing my LJ post on me and fandom which will emphasise that it - and that's 'old' Doctor Who fandom - was largely a slash-free zone, as indeed those reservoirs of old fandom still are. I don't want to stop people writing what they want to write, and recognise that fiction-led slash writing has rich heritage. I just want people to remember that there are other definitions and experiences.

[tree_and_leaf]

LJ does skew very heavily towards slash - I tend to forget it isn't all of fandom, but you are of course right.

I vaguely remember mentioning the popularity of Doctor/ Jamie to an old school fan - on LJ, but not active in LJ Who fandom - and he was baffled by the concept...

(I think it may have been snorkack_catcher, but I'm not sure).

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

Second Doctor/Jamie contradicts and even misses the point of the traditional fan view of the cherished relationship between the second Doctor and Jamie - that together they act as agents of chaos in ordered situations which are vulnerable because they are unbending; Jamie's lack of technical knowledge and the tendency of the Doctor's mind to move too fast for the liking of successive bureaucrats combined with his gypsy-like appearance (clothes chosen for him by the TARDIS, presumably, as he is somehow wearing them after the transformation from the first Doctor...) to give the impression of children set loose and taking over an adult world. I find this at its strongest in season five, alongside Victoria.

This might suggest that old fandom emphasised in commenting on and expanding the text, whereas slash is by its nature subversive. This statement is in turn open to challenge...

[mk-tortie.livejournal.com]

I've not found that much good Narnia fic (mainly perhaps because I haven't seen the films) but I do have one offering, if you've seen Torchwood: http://tirwen-star03.livejournal.com/318952.html It's Susan and Jack, and it's really good.

[tree_and_leaf]

I think you may have linked to the wrong fic - though that's rather charming - but if you mean the one I think, then it is indeed brilliant.

[mk-tortie.livejournal.com]

Oops, yes... or rather, I didn't read my own delicious tags closely enough. There's that one, which is great, AND a Narnia/Torchwood fic, which is here: http://paperclipbitch.livejournal.com/99563.html?view=1625579#t1625579

[intertext.livejournal.com]

it's maybe a good thing that there's no Swallows and Amazons fandom to speak of.
O.M.G. Thanks to you I now have irresistible images in my head of Titty/Roger, complete with illustrations by Arthur Ransome.

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

No, no. It's clearly Titty/Great Aunt Maria and Roger/Timothy.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

Nancy + strap-on/John, surely?

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

*snorts* Definitely.

I have also revised my plans for GMA to GMA/Missee Lee.

[tree_and_leaf]

*choke*

She'd certainly be on top, come what might...

[tree_and_leaf]

*sporks eyes out in the approved Greek tragic fashion*

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

ABSOLUTELY REFUSE INDUCE LOVE INTEREST RANSOME

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

I loved reading this post and comments... You do know I'm still thinking seriously about writing this Life on Mars/The Big Six crossover, don't you? You may now defriend if you wish.

[tree_and_leaf]

No, no, I'm looking forward to it - it sounds inspired, in a slightly mind-boggling sort of way!