Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - reaction post

[tree_and_leaf]

First off: I liked it. The reaction to the spoilers had made me very nervous, but I did enjoy it, and the disparity of style some people have noted didn't bother me. It is, after all, a diffferent sort of book, in some ways.



I liked what we learned of Dumbledore - not evil! Dumbledore, but flawed in a way that's consistent with what we've seen in earlier canon - and also with some of his more dangerous strengths (Doctor Who fans will hopefully understand me if I say that at various points he reminded me of the Seventh Doctor, and in some ways his relationship with Harry could be seen as a more distant version of Seven's mentoring of Ace). Although it's not an exact parallel, I also thought - with regard to his youthful indiscretions - of Günter Grass' confession, last year, of his stint in the Waffen SS, and the media storm that ensued (generating, as always, more heat than light). The fact that Dumbledore was himself in some sense a penitent perhaps explains, as much as Snape's torch-carrying for Lily, why he was willing to trust him in a way that Mad-Eye, who appears to have had no dark secrets in his past, couldn't.

I loved the Trio throughout, though I wish we'd got to see Hermione take on 'her' Horcrux. The scene where Ron confronted the locket Horcrux - which had a touch of the Ring about it - was perfect, though I bet there will be howls of disgust at the revelation that Tom Riddle is a Harmonian.

I was generally convinced by Snape. I very much liked Aberforth, and I was surprised to find myself feeling slightly sorry for Lucius, even though he deserves pretty much everything he got. Narcissa showed herself a true Black, being more concerned about family than anything else. Nigellus remains ambiguous, though I was sorry to hear him use language like 'Mudblood' (incidentally, did anyone else notice in the film of OOTP that he'd been burnt off the tapestry, or did my eyes decieve me?)

Loved Neville; loved Minerva, though I wish she'd had more page-time. Bellatrix being taken out by Molly was both unexpected and exactly right. Hagrid, I assume, was the character reprieved, for which I'm glad (though again, that may not be popular in some quarters). Liked Percy; Umbridge was effective. The whole descent of the wizarding world into fascism was chilling, and I didn't expect the Nazism parallels to be drawn quite so firmly (not an objection, just an observation). The Deathly Hallows sign worn by Mr Lovegood seemed to be a borrowing from the perversion of a perfectly innocent bit of sun imagery into an unpleasant sun sign - though, of course, I'm not convinced that the Hallows were entirely innocent, and I don't think I'm supposed to be. The appearance of the symbol in the book of fairy tales reminded me of the swastikas you find in early editions of Kipling, but I don't think this is a deliberate reference.

Am devasted by the death of Tonks - less so than Lupin, who has been wandering about with an 'I'm doomed' sticker on his back for some time (I'm more upset about his spineless abandoning of Tonks, but it's not exactly ot of character, though it's a bit of a blow to admit it) and I do wish we could have seen the deaths. If nothing else, it would have been nice for Lupin to have had a heroic moment to counteract his earlier bad moments. He's more like Pettigrew than is at first apparent. But I suppose that's battle: there isn't time to grieve, or even to take everything in. The same applies to Harry's lack of emotional reaction - at least initially - to the revalations about Snape. He had a job to do, after all. I think I'd have prefered a more 'factual' approach to the epilogue, incidentally, though again, I don't dislike it as much as sections of fandom seem to. Maybe it's just that the final paragraph, at least on a first read, seems so rushed.

Finally, I did really like the idea of the gates of the afterlife as a train station. And there's something suspiciously apt about the way that Harry, just after willingly going to his death (like an animal reared for slaughter, as Snape angrily points out), finds himself at King's Cross.

Comments

[a-t-rain.livejournal.com]

I think Lupin's career as an underground radio broadcaster is heroic moment enough for me (and if I weren't totally gutted by the ending, I'd be rushing off to write fic about it).

[tree_and_leaf]

True. The whole resistance radio plot was one of my favourite bits, and it positively demands fic.

[greenwoodside.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who immediately thought of Gunter Grass when the Dumbledore backstory came up.

Have to admit I'm part of the camp that loathes the epilogue - I'm unconvinced by the rest of the book as a whole, but I think it has some beautiful moments. Not least Minerva and "Charge!"

[greenwoodside.livejournal.com]

Brilliant point about King's Cross, BTW. Beware, lest I plagiarise it.

[tree_and_leaf]

Thank you! I'm sure I can't be the only person this has occurred to....

*waits for complaints about JKR's Christian agenda*

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

I'd not been struck by the Christian allusion in King's Cross *slaps forehead* despite the obviousness of the lamb-for-slaughter line and the offering for sacrifice. That it was getting towards 4am when I read the chapter in question is no excuse.

[tree_and_leaf]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who immediately thought of Gunter Grass when the Dumbledore backstory came up.

I also thought of the Pope, as I recently got into an argument with someone on a non-LJ blog about whether it was meaningful to label Ratzinger a Nazi on the basis of his youthful membership of the HJ - though as it turned out that she seemed to think that being a conservative was exctly the same as being a Nazi, it's not surprising that the discussion didn't go anywhere sensible (another hint was when she switched to refering to 'Pope Rat')

I think I will have to reread when less tired in order to judge the book as a whole!

[greenwoodside.livejournal.com]

(another hint was when she switched to refering to 'Pope Rat')

*laughs* Oh dear!

I think that Grass is the more natural comparison - the Joachim Fest "I wouldn't buy a used car from that man now" shock-horror reaction seems more reminiscent of the HP verse. Ratty's HJ past garnered quite a low-key reaction from the press, from what I remember. At least it did for someone who was about to become head of the RC Church.

[tree_and_leaf]

I think that Grass is the more natural comparison - the Joachim Fest "I wouldn't buy a used car from that man now" shock-horror reaction seems more reminiscent of the HP verse.

Yes, definitely. Lots of people seem to have taken Grass' confession as almost a personal betrayal, and the way lots of people regarded him as the embodiment of Germany's conscience is quite comparable to Dumbledore's status in the Wizarding world. And, of course, the double runes are shocking in a way that just being in the HJ isn't (and it's not like anyone really expected Ratty to be an icon of radicalism...)

[ellid.livejournal.com]

I am seething over how badly the whole Remus/Tonks plot was handled. Sloppy writing, sloppy characterization, frigid writing over the deaths. She could have done it much better, and it's obvious that her editors stopped doing their job in any but a superficial way years ago.

[tree_and_leaf]

I don't have a problem with Lupin's characterization: I think it's consistent. We never really get to know Tonks well enough to judge one way or another. I must admit that I thought that DH was better edited than some of the earlier ones, although it's difficult to tell at 2 o'clock in the morning, and I'll have to reread at a more leisurely pace before coming to a final conclusion.

[juno-magic.livejournal.com]

My reaction to the book is kind of weird. I laughed a couple of times, but that was it. Somehow I just can't bring myself to care anymore. *shrugs*

I think that many of the deaths were handled ... I dunno ... I guess in many ways it's realistic to dump the bodies so matter-of-factly along the pages. In a war you gotta move on, after all. But it kept me from caring. Mkay, maybe I've simply outgrown that series.

What really amused me was a passage at the very beginning, the description of the manor ... I thought that was so horribly done. Overloaded with meaningless adjectives. I had the feeling as if a thesaurus had been upended over those pages.

[tree_and_leaf]

What really amused me was a passage at the very beginning, the description of the manor ... I thought that was so horribly done. Overloaded with meaningless adjectives.

Well, perhaps. Although you could take it as a subtle reflection of Malfoy's abysmal taste. Pure white peacocks?

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

I was going to say something similar. I bet they think adjectives are really classy.

[tree_and_leaf]

I'm now imagining a Jasper Fforde-Rowling cross-over, where Lucius, worried that his family are coming out badly, ventures out to dodgy pubs in the Well of Lost Plots while trying to buy extra adjectives on the black market, with which to embellish his appearances.....

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

I like to think that the thing that finally brings Lucius down is being caught by the Department for Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures casting illegal adjectival charms on a peacock.

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

Like those M&S adverts and menus that can't just stay "sirloin steak" but "tender, rich, red, juicy steak cut from the plump, well-cared-for, organic flesh of pure-bred, grass-fed Aberdeen Angus bullocks".

I loved not so much the peacock as Yaxley's reaction to the peacock.

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

Like those M&S adverts and menus that can't just stay "sirloin steak" but "tender, rich, red, juicy steak cut from the plump, well-cared-for, organic flesh of pure-bred, grass-fed Aberdeen Angus bullocks".

I love those - in a completely negative and mocking way. One of my treats when I go home to Harrogate is to go round the local Waitrose (another big culprit) reading the legends on perfectly ordinary things like oranges and laughing myself silly.

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

I first came across mention of it courtesy of a Bill bryson book on the radio, whereby the entire family spent the next month saying things along the lines of "Please pass the Maldon, sea crystal, pure, white, sparkling salt".

[helflaed.livejournal.com]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I love food, but those adverts have started to make me feel nauseous whenever they come on the TV- not just the voice but the horrible way that the food seems to glisten- nope, sorry, feeling sick again just thinking of them.

The blueberry smoothie desert is the worst.

[mrstater.livejournal.com]

Am devasted by the death of Tonks - less so than Lupin, who has been wandering about with an 'I'm doomed' sticker on his back for some time (I'm more upset about his spineless abandoning of Tonks, but it's not exactly ot of character, though it's a bit of a blow to admit it) and I do wish we could have seen the deaths. If nothing else, it would have been nice for Lupin to have had a heroic moment to counteract his earlier bad moments.

I think we desperately needed more background about how he's going from holding her hand, to marrying her, to flaking out. Did she lose her job because she married him? He says her parents are disgusted, but then they're all kind of together later for the birth, so obviously Andromeda got over it? I guess Ted's murder was a big factor there for them all seeing the light... I thought Remus was IC, reading between the lines of what horrible horrible stuff they likely encountered, and then I adored him on Potterwatch and when Teddy was born, and he obviously had come around...I guess it's fodder for fanfic.

More importantly: Dang, Tonks got pregnant fast. Like...pre-vividest pink fast. Maybe that was the cause? Birth control potions, charms, Order Members? Sheesh.

[tree_and_leaf]

I think we desperately needed more background about how he's going from holding her hand, to marrying her, to flaking out. Did she lose her job because she married him

Well, yes, although it would have been difficult to work in given the plot Rowling had constructed - they are minor characters in plot terms, after all. Looking on the bright side, as you say, the book's given fic-writers a lot to go at....

Dang, Tonks got pregnant fast. Like...pre-vividest pink fast.

It was quick work, yes, though I haven't tried to work out the timetable!

[mrstater.livejournal.com]

The whole timetable confused me. I thought it was still around Christmastime, or early winter, and then it was Easter!

[legionseagle.livejournal.com]

The marriage was awfully quick, she said meaningfully...

[tree_and_leaf]

Molly: Remus, are you going to accept your responsibilities towards that poor girl, or do I have to make you at wandpoint?

[legionseagle.livejournal.com]

You don't want to get on the wrong end of Molly Weasley's wand, evidently. "NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH" has to be one of the great lines of the book.

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

So many good comments, if I picked up on all of them I'd be here all day.

But I thought your remarks on Moody were particularly perceptive.

[tree_and_leaf]

Thank you.

Moody's attitude to Snape reminds me of the Dean's comment in Gaudy Night about 'Some people's blameless lives are to blame for a great deal' - though in other respects, I love Moody.

[zanesfriend.livejournal.com]

Similarly, in Agatha Christie's "Murder at the Vicarage", Griselda says of the old ladies of the parish, "What they need is a little honest wickedness in their lives; then they wouldn't be so eager to spot it in others."

[tree_and_leaf]

It's often true, unfortunately.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

I did like the epilogue; while I would have liked more factual information about the recovery of wizarding society (while viala_qilarre has thought that the epilogue states the essential stability and conservatism of the wizardly world, surely much of that was based in denial of the threat from Voldemort, and that threat has now been accepted and faced) the Harry Potter story has always been a personal one; we see Harry with a family, and also see how steps have been taken to show that Teddy Tonks is not left abandoned like Harry or Tom Riddle. Any other personal details are left occluded - with his renunication of the Elder Wand Harry became the private person he had never really been before, though it's clear he retains an heroic status, this is placed beyond further exploration.

[tree_and_leaf]

Any other personal details are left occluded - with his renunication of the Elder Wand Harry became the private person he had never really been before,

An excellent point.