(no subject)

[tree_and_leaf]

Asked by kivrin (I'm answering the straightforward question first!)

What's the financial relationship (if any) between the CofE and the government? Do parishes pay taxes? Do parishes get money from the government (either central or local) for regular operating expenses?

The C of E doesn't get government money - although parishes who use historic buildings can and do apply for grants from groups like English Heritage, which is ultimately government money. But there's no 'church tax' system as in Germany or Scandinavia, and even historic church buildings don't automatically get maintained by the state (as I believe they are in France, oddly enough). This is why - although I think it's an abominable custom - so many cathedrals charge for entry; these buildings eat money, even before you get into staff costs.*

Parishes don't pay income tax; they're exempt as charities. There's also a scheme called 'gift aid' whereby charities can claim the tax taxpayers payed on money they donate back from the government (i.e. you can't offset your charitable giving against your income tax, but the charity of your choice gets the benefit of it).

So where does the money come from? These days about 75% comes from donations by churchgoers; the other significant single source is from the assets (shares and land) managed by the Church Commissioners on the C of E's behalf. More information here, should you want more details.

* That said, I think entry charges are theologically deeply dubious, and I'm not convinced it's absolutely necessary. St Albans doesn't charge, and Westminster Cathedral seems to cope.

Comments

[aella_irene]

I think the Church Comissioners own my flat, technically, my father has a 99 year rent, but anyway, if they don't own my freehold, they own everything on one side.

[antisoppist]

My father farms the glebe in his village and pays rent for that. The old rectory was sold off but not the fields that went with it.

[liadnan]

Westminster Cathedral seems to cope.

Only just. The Drome's finances are dire but Mark Langham (previous Administrator [=Dean]) always swore they'd charge for entry over his dead body and Christopher Tuckwell has maintained the policy.

There's a charge for going up the tower and - recently - a treasury exhibition. Otherwise it's the collection, the Friends, and a lot of praying.

[coughingbear]

And it will be a very long time before they finish the ceiling.

[liseuse]

I dither about admission charges. Because I live in York I have a card that gets me free entry to the Minster, but the charges are really high if you don't have any. But it's continually under construction! But then no one visits! I wish there was a way to keep maintaining the building without charging for entrance, but it seems, in the case of the Minster anyway, that relying on generosity didn't work.

[kivrin]

Thank you! That is most enlightening. About gift aid - can the donor choose that (whether she gets to offset the giving against her income tax, or whether the recipient gets the benefit) or is it the recipient's choice?

I agree with you about the dubiety of entry charges - my immediate thought is "what if, instead, there were a charge for permission to take photos?" but that would bring the congregation a huge new burden of enforcement. So, in short, ugh.

(A tiny spelling note - my handle is KivrIn with a second I, not an e.)

[tree_and_leaf]

Ack! Sorry, cannot type. I will alter it accordingly.

Gift aid can only go to the recipient, but of course the donor has to fill in the form declaring that they are a tax payer and pay enough tax to cover the Gift Aid recovered.

[tree_and_leaf]

The Church Commissioners own a surprising range of things...

[tree_and_leaf]

Gosh. I wonder how common that is?

[antisoppist]

I am told that there was a point mid 20th century when my grandfather, who had been farming it for years and was also a lay reader, a churchwarden and pillar of the parish community, thought "hang on, shouldn't I be paying someone for this?" so the church wasn't spectacularly competent at collecting it.

[shewhostaples]

I have an ex-York-Minster-choir friend who has very strong Opinions about the charges, and the necessity thereof. She can usually get me in for free, though.

York does seem to be particularly obnoxious about it. St Paul's, too.

[tree_and_leaf]

I got obnoxiously ushered out of St Pauls just after the Chrism Mass because I'd got too close to the chapel where they keep the Light of the World.

[shewhostaples]

Yuck.

I don't like St Paul's much anyway - too full of noisy tourists (maybe it's only the loud ones that cough up?) but having to pay a tenner for the privilege really does seem a bit steep. Notre Dame is too noisy, too (even in the middle of Mass, which I was rather shocked by), but at least you don't have to pay to get in. Sacré-Coeur, while equally crowded, has vergers all over the place to enforce hush.

[tree_and_leaf]

St Paul's is still better than Westminster Abbey in that respect, though; the Abbey really is a museum/ zoo. I like the mosaics in St Paul's, but the acoustics are simply horrid (I go there for Evensnog occasionally when I'm in London).