Amusing, in a headdesky way, or headdesky in an amusing way?

[tree_and_leaf]

Dawkins and Sherine back bus ads reading "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

.... yeah. Atheist says: stop thinking and take my word for it!

(Actually, that's a little unfair, because the ads are intended as a response to a series of evangelical ones threatening non-Christians with hell-fire. All the same, the fear of hell is not exactly integral to the faith of most of the religious people I know†, and I cannot say that a sudden loss of my faith would improve my enjoyment of life; quite the reverse.)

On a side note, buried in the article is the information that Dawkins supports a Tory humanist group. I didn't know he was a Tory, but for some reason I'm not entirely surprised. (ETA: see comment from lizw below; this appears to be a misunderstanding.

† The only sense I can make of Hell is total alienation from God, and therefore all that is good, of becoming lost in myself and in hatred, which does indeed scare me quite a lot, but I suspect that's not the sort of thing Dawkins et al think I'm scared of.

Comments

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

Dawkins is usually identified as a social democrat; I've seen his interpretation of evolution contrasted with the libertarian political conclusions of Matt Ridley somewhere.

"Stop worrying and enjoy your life" is extremely pat, and open to all kinds of interpretations; I don't suppose they mean "Party on" but they might.

[sangerin.livejournal.com]

I'm rapidly becoming convinced that Dawkins et al only believe in one sort of Christian. The rest of us don't exist. (Got defriended by someone over Dawkins, although I can't say I'm sorry that I no longer have all sorts of pro-Dawkins stuff all over my flist. (I miss the Jenny Agutter squeeage, though. ~g~)

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

There is a strand of Dawkins apologist who say things like "Of course, Richard acknowledges the contribution that Christianity and other religions have made to the development of intellectual life and a scientific understanding of the universe, he just can't say so because it's more important to attack religion as the root of so many people's ignorance," which strikes me as profoundly dishonest (though representative of a particular current in modern advocacy).

If Dawkins is now an agnostic, as the Ekklesia report suggested, then I have to say his agnosticism is not mine.

[tree_and_leaf]

I think they meant that the advert was agnostic, rather than that Dawkins has become one: but I do think that Dawkins makes a great straw man for anti-atheist polemic - he's not really helpful in having a sensible discussion, whatever your beliefs.

[dr-biscuit.livejournal.com]

This seems to me a rather inaccurate (and unfair) representation of what I've heard/read him saying. In fact, a very large portion of the God Delusion is devoted to explaining what/who he is not attacking, and separating the people from the ideas. Unfortunately most people do seem to receive what he has to say as a personal attack directed at every person who identifies as believing in a god. (Possibly because they have only read his ideas in soundbites, and then accuse him of being simplistic, I don't know.)

[miss-s-b.livejournal.com]

Dawkins has always been an agnostic in the strist sense of the word, and says so in print in several of his books. Having said, that, I agree with tree_and_leaf I agree that he makes more heat than light, whatever side you're on.

[tree_and_leaf]

Yes - or we're either liars or hypocrites, and deeply in denial.

[lizw.livejournal.com]

I think when the article says "helped launch a Tory humanist group", it just means that he spoke at their launch meeting (http://www.conservativehumanists.org.uk/?p=46) at the Tory Fringe last month.

I remember being amused by the idea of the ads when it was first mooted, and briefly considered pledging.

[tree_and_leaf]

Ah - I see.

I'm sort of amused by the ads, but they're so reductive that they also make me want to smack something.

[lizw.livejournal.com]

I find them quite cheering in their understatement, actually. I'm taking them in much the same spirit as the icons that some people had after 7/7, along the lines of "Bad day at work? Nice cup of tea. Boyfriend broke up with you? Nice cup of tea. Major terrorist attack taking out half the transport network? Nice cup of tea!"

[sigisgrim.livejournal.com]

I think I need to observe that the advert doesn't attempt to encourage one to lose one's faith. It just says stop worrying.

I think, in the context of the advert, that it's just as valid to believe and not to worry about the possibility in believing in something that doesn't exist, as to not believe and not worry about failing to believe in something that does exist.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

I think it's the implication that believers are necessarily worriers that might be considered insulting...

[oursin.livejournal.com]

As an atheist, I feel that there are probably little earthquakes all over the places where a long tradition of freethinkers are buried. Because George Eliot, e.g., was all about enjoying life - um, well, actually, she was, cf various speeches by Ladislaw in Middlemarch, but in a responsible, ethical way that wouldn't really lend itself to glib soundbites.

While saying or implying 'You are a sad deluded person' may be less nasty than saying 'Ye're all damned!! There'll be no butter in hell!' I suspect that people are more likely to be insulted by the former than the latter.

[tree_and_leaf]

suspect that people are more likely to be insulted by the former than the latter.

Strange, but probably true!

And yes, it's the soundbitiness I find annoying, rather than the expression of atheist sentiment. I tend to cringe when I see Alpha Course ads (although at least they generally play up the 'asking questions' aspect). But the hell-fire sort of thing makes me mutter 'get off my side, damnit' (although I'm not sure that they would see me as being in their club, anyway!).

[straussmonster.livejournal.com]

I would pay a great deal of monies (that I do not have) to see ads like that in various places back home, because the righteous indignation generated could power the country for years.

[tree_and_leaf]

From both sides, I suspect (see oursin's post on the subject....

[dolorous-ett.livejournal.com]

That seems a bit over the top, but I've had enough experience of the idiotic kind of religious zealot to see why Dawkins's crowd are doing it. I'm not sure this is helping, as generally atheists should be proud of not backing people into corners and nagging them about the state of their souls, but there you go.

A plague on both their houses, as far as I'm concerned.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

'Have YOU accepted Darwin as your personal saviour?'

[tree_and_leaf]

I can entirely sympathise with that! I have just got back from dinner, where we were jammed in beside a group of enthusiastic evangelicals discussing how they couldn't relate to people who didn't "Have grace in their lives" (bad theology anyway) and their plans for trying to convert their housemate.

If I start giving off those sort of vibes, please tell me so that I can apologise profusely and mend my ways.

[el-staplador.livejournal.com]

I was amused by our dear friend Stephen Green: 'Bendy-buses, like atheism, are a danger to the public at large.' Interesting order, I thought. I wonder if he is a Routemaster diehard.

[tree_and_leaf]

That's.... special. Good to know he has his priorities straight, anyway; I wouldn't like to see him spreading undue alarm and despondency.

[wellinghall.livejournal.com]

You've generated a good discussion here!

[tree_and_leaf]

It feels a bit like accidentally causing an avalanche, actually, but yes.

[scionofgrace.livejournal.com]

I think the bit I liked from the article I read was the Christian and Muslim leaders saying, "We don't mind, it'll get people thinking about religion and God and is therefore good press!"

Also, as I understand it, the hellfire wasn't mentioned in the ads, but rather on the associated websites.

Honestly, though... the idea that there is no overarching purpose to existence and no afterlife is actually one of the more depressing ideas I know of.

[tree_and_leaf]

the Christian and Muslim leaders saying, "We don't mind, it'll get people thinking about religion and God and is therefore good press!"

Yes - apparently the National Secular Society is miffed that they've taken it that way (you can't win with some people...)

Honestly, though... the idea that there is no overarching purpose to existence and no afterlife is actually one of the more depressing ideas I know of.

Particularly the lack of purpose, I think.