Amusing, in a headdesky way, or headdesky in an amusing way?

[tree_and_leaf]

Dawkins and Sherine back bus ads reading "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

.... yeah. Atheist says: stop thinking and take my word for it!

(Actually, that's a little unfair, because the ads are intended as a response to a series of evangelical ones threatening non-Christians with hell-fire. All the same, the fear of hell is not exactly integral to the faith of most of the religious people I know†, and I cannot say that a sudden loss of my faith would improve my enjoyment of life; quite the reverse.)

On a side note, buried in the article is the information that Dawkins supports a Tory humanist group. I didn't know he was a Tory, but for some reason I'm not entirely surprised. (ETA: see comment from lizw below; this appears to be a misunderstanding.

† The only sense I can make of Hell is total alienation from God, and therefore all that is good, of becoming lost in myself and in hatred, which does indeed scare me quite a lot, but I suspect that's not the sort of thing Dawkins et al think I'm scared of.

Comments

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

Dawkins is usually identified as a social democrat; I've seen his interpretation of evolution contrasted with the libertarian political conclusions of Matt Ridley somewhere.

"Stop worrying and enjoy your life" is extremely pat, and open to all kinds of interpretations; I don't suppose they mean "Party on" but they might.

[sangerin.livejournal.com]

I'm rapidly becoming convinced that Dawkins et al only believe in one sort of Christian. The rest of us don't exist. (Got defriended by someone over Dawkins, although I can't say I'm sorry that I no longer have all sorts of pro-Dawkins stuff all over my flist. (I miss the Jenny Agutter squeeage, though. ~g~)

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

There is a strand of Dawkins apologist who say things like "Of course, Richard acknowledges the contribution that Christianity and other religions have made to the development of intellectual life and a scientific understanding of the universe, he just can't say so because it's more important to attack religion as the root of so many people's ignorance," which strikes me as profoundly dishonest (though representative of a particular current in modern advocacy).

If Dawkins is now an agnostic, as the Ekklesia report suggested, then I have to say his agnosticism is not mine.

[lizw.livejournal.com]

I think when the article says "helped launch a Tory humanist group", it just means that he spoke at their launch meeting (http://www.conservativehumanists.org.uk/?p=46) at the Tory Fringe last month.

I remember being amused by the idea of the ads when it was first mooted, and briefly considered pledging.

[tree_and_leaf]

Ah - I see.

I'm sort of amused by the ads, but they're so reductive that they also make me want to smack something.

[tree_and_leaf]

I think they meant that the advert was agnostic, rather than that Dawkins has become one: but I do think that Dawkins makes a great straw man for anti-atheist polemic - he's not really helpful in having a sensible discussion, whatever your beliefs.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

I have at least one friend who regards Dawkins as part of a series of great scientific prophets. I think that this is how Dawkins sees himself.

[tree_and_leaf]

Yes - or we're either liars or hypocrites, and deeply in denial.

[lizw.livejournal.com]

I find them quite cheering in their understatement, actually. I'm taking them in much the same spirit as the icons that some people had after 7/7, along the lines of "Bad day at work? Nice cup of tea. Boyfriend broke up with you? Nice cup of tea. Major terrorist attack taking out half the transport network? Nice cup of tea!"

[sigisgrim.livejournal.com]

I think I need to observe that the advert doesn't attempt to encourage one to lose one's faith. It just says stop worrying.

I think, in the context of the advert, that it's just as valid to believe and not to worry about the possibility in believing in something that doesn't exist, as to not believe and not worry about failing to believe in something that does exist.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

I think it's the implication that believers are necessarily worriers that might be considered insulting...

[sigisgrim.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's targeted at believers, rather, like the evangelical Christian adverts it is targeted at the not-quite believers, the waverers, the ones who worry that they don't believe.

If the believers feel insulted by that then they ought to think about how the evangelical adverts are viewed by non-believers.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

This points to the other problem - that the campaign falls into the trap of the evangelical posters, that you can only either be for or against simplistic points of view.

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

Although being called a worrier is a lot less insulting than some of the comments directed at atheists that are very commonly heard without objection*. Which it appears the point of the campaign. Speaking as an atheist who has in the past been called damned, evil, and a whore (and that's just in person, let alone in print - one memorable incidence of the latter by someone who actually thought I should be flattered that to be told if I weren't an atheist slut he's ask me out), my heart doesn't bleed for anybody who is momentarily discombobulated.

[ETA: And that's why they're reductive. They're not meant to persuade. They're meant to make people double-take and think "why is that advert weird". If they were complex, they wouldn't be much of a parody.]

*And routinely expected to be. As Radio 4 put it, a complaint against Thought for the Day doesn't stand if the offending language is "grounded in scripture". I am waiting for the day they excuse racist argument on these grounds as opposed to misogyny.

[tree_and_leaf]

Which is a little scary, frankly.

[parrot-knight.livejournal.com]

Point taken - the problem with always being sensitive towards any potential insult to any group is that the first in the queue gets all my attention.

"who actually thought I should be flattered that to be told if I weren't an atheist slut he's ask me out"

So much for compassion, then. I'm sorry to read this.

[tree_and_leaf]

Existential crisis? Nice cup of tea!

[azdak.livejournal.com]

thought I should be flattered that to be told if I weren't an atheist slut he's ask me out

Clearly someone who never understood why Elizabeth turned Darcy down the first time around...

[tree_and_leaf]

Urgh. That's vile, and I'm sorry to hear it.

I'm not insulted by the ads or anything; I just think they're a bit glib. But you're right; the militant fundamentalists have said things that are worse, often.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

if I weren't an atheist slut he's ask me out

To which the response probably ought to be 'Even if you weren't the kind of uptight intolerant prat who gives religion a bad name, I wouldn't touch you with someone else's ten-foot bargepole'.

[tree_and_leaf]

I don't feel insulted, though I think I might do if I were 'wavering', in the sense of having serious questions about God, etc. I know a few people who have moved from agnosticism to Christianity, and in no case were they motivated by the fear of spending an eternity in torment.

they ought to think about how the evangelical adverts are viewed by non-believers.

Yes. I do. Every time I see one of them I cringe, because they're offensive, theologically dubious and, pragmatically speaking, stupid. Unfortunately I can't do anything about them, because 'believers', let alone 'Christians' aren't a homogenous block, any more than 'agnostics' or 'atheists' are.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

As an atheist, I feel that there are probably little earthquakes all over the places where a long tradition of freethinkers are buried. Because George Eliot, e.g., was all about enjoying life - um, well, actually, she was, cf various speeches by Ladislaw in Middlemarch, but in a responsible, ethical way that wouldn't really lend itself to glib soundbites.

While saying or implying 'You are a sad deluded person' may be less nasty than saying 'Ye're all damned!! There'll be no butter in hell!' I suspect that people are more likely to be insulted by the former than the latter.

[tree_and_leaf]

Indeed. Not to mention someone who deserved a slap.

*uses Slope icon for his spectacularly awful attempt at proposing*

[tree_and_leaf]

suspect that people are more likely to be insulted by the former than the latter.

Strange, but probably true!

And yes, it's the soundbitiness I find annoying, rather than the expression of atheist sentiment. I tend to cringe when I see Alpha Course ads (although at least they generally play up the 'asking questions' aspect). But the hell-fire sort of thing makes me mutter 'get off my side, damnit' (although I'm not sure that they would see me as being in their club, anyway!).

[tree_and_leaf]

Or, indeed, just your icon...